Could an easy mode in next Souls work like this?

aprilmanha wrote:

steveswede wrote:The conclusion I'm coming to with an easy mode is that the people that want this want the challenge removed. What they can't understand is that the challenge is a core mechanic and it will destroy what the Souls series is all about by removing it.

But what about the players with lesser abilities, those of us who's skills are such that we would still find a Dark Souls "Easy" mode a challenge.

Its not about removing the challenge for all, and if a so called DkS "Fan" only plays the next game in easy mode without playing the normal mode that is a real challenge for them, then it is really only them that is missing out. Us worse players would have a challenge beating Easy mode, before then tackling Normal mode, while more skilled players jump right in on hard mode!

It is about removing the challenge because easy means easy. I mean look the word up.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/easy

I'll just pull this from there

Capable of being accomplished or acquired with ease; posing no difficulty

If you take the difficulty away then there is no challenge and therefore it's destroyed a major mechanic of the Souls series. This is not about limiting who should and who shouldn't play this game, an easy mode defeats the purpose of a Souls game. Why can't you understand that.

Exactly^

It would be like removing the main support from a building to make more room for chairs. It won't hold up!

steveswede wrote:
If you take the difficulty away then there is no challenge and therefore it's destroyed a major mechanic of the Souls series. This is not about limiting who should and who shouldn't play this game, an easy mode defeats the purpose of a Souls game. Why can't you understand that.

Because while it is easy to you, it is still challenging to me. It is only called easy mode because that is the naming convention in video games.

I could understand having some things be easier like Bed of Chaos anyone? More Hints at least.

Cause on my first playthrough without community help I was stuck there with my lvl 56 toon for like hmm 3 weeks maybe I died soooooo many times untill I Summon someone doing a low lvl playthroug (didnt know what low lvl was at the time) who expertly uses the bow to pop the other side then jumps down and beats the boss for me. I was like WTF!!!!!!!! are you serious!!!! I didnt know that, I just thought the game was saying F U!!!!!!

aprilmanha wrote:

steveswede wrote:
If you take the difficulty away then there is no challenge and therefore it's destroyed a major mechanic of the Souls series. This is not about limiting who should and who shouldn't play this game, an easy mode defeats the purpose of a Souls game. Why can't you understand that.

Because while it is easy to you, it is still challenging to me. It is only called easy mode because that is the naming convention in video games.

You've still after all this time not stated why challenge is a bad thing.

aprilmanha wrote:Because while it is easy to you, it is still challenging to me. It is only called easy mode because that is the naming convention in video games.

This is nothing to do with it being easy for me, it's about removing difficulty from a Souls game would destroy the core of the game. You don't remove the karaoke singer from karaoke because that would stop it being what it is. You finding it challenging is your hurdle to battle with and if you can't handle it then you should play other games. I personally want you to stick at it because when you do complete it, it will give you such a rewarding feeling that it will build your character as a person. You will feel an addiction to have more challenging games because all those games that hold your hand will make you fall asleep playing.

I was just thinking...imagine a world where wikis/forums didn't exist. Imagine having no reference for help like this. I wonder what percentage of current players might have just given up? This forum is, in it's own way, an easy mode. Someone could try a boss like BoC and have no idea what to do. Theoritically, the game wants you to keep trying, experimenting with different approaches. But most people get frustrated and then search for a forum post. Everything is relative, I guess.

At this point you are just saying that you want it to be easy because it is hard for you.

Onion Knight wrote:
You've still after all this time not stated why challenge is a bad thing.

I never said it was a bad thing. I'm just saying that IF easy mode existed it would be a good challenge for me to start at. Then maybe move onto normal if I ever managed to beat easy.

Just because I enjoy the core mechanics does not mean I enjoy the artificial difficulty added on top of it.

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:At this point you are just saying that you want it to be easy because it is hard for you.

Yes I am. Dark Souls was much to hard to enjoy when I started, it was not until I got to Coop with a friend that it became fun.

And even then, easy is a relative term. Easy for you is not easy for me.

steveswede wrote:
I personally want you to stick at it because when you do
complete it, it will give you such a rewarding feeling that it will
build your character as a person.

I did, I finished the game, and it left me hollow. (Hah)

Parry Stabbing Gywn to death and getting no resolution, and then dropped back to the start again felt like the developers were saying "Yeah whatever that was nothing". But even so, the gameplay and mechanics of the game were mostly tight and enjoyable. If more games took examples from DS on the controls it would be a great thing.

And I'm still playing, mostly to try to get through to the DLC I bought now, but I'm hoping to get that "accomplished" feeling people talk about.

@Back Lot Basher- I purposely went into DkS blind, aside from knowing that somewhere along the line I would be coming up against two Gargoyles on a roof having seen it on a review show, and whilst it was absolutely brutal and it took me an absolute age to bring one of my characters around to NG+ (almost a year to be precise :oops: , but that was because I got severely tied up in PvPing) I'm mightily glad that I did. Subsequent runs, along with this wiki, have lead me to discover a whole wealth of stuff that I had missed, or that I could of done a heck of lot better, but knowing that I made my way from start to end on my todd was and still is absolutely priceless.

We can all agree dark souls isnt for the faint of heart.

Died 38,536 times and counting.

Gazman0169 wrote:@Back Lot Basher- I purposely went into DkS blind, aside from knowing that somewhere along the line I would be coming up against two Gargoyles on a roof having seen it on a review show, and whilst it was absolutely brutal and it took me an absolute age to bring one of my characters around to NG+ (almost a year to be precise :oops: , but that was because I got severely tied up in PvPing) I'm mightily glad that I did. Subsequent runs, along with this wiki, have lead me to discover a whole wealth of stuff that I had missed, or that I could of done a heck of lot better, but knowing that I made my way from start to end on my todd was and still is absolutely priceless.

It's certainly a different experience going in blind. I did a lot of the game blind as well. Two of my lowest points were trying to beat Taurus (had no idea I could jump down on him...I kept waiting for him to come up and fight me on the top of the tower, and kept getting tossed off). The other was getting cursed. Fell right in that open grate into a nest of them. Dark days indeed.

Back Lot Basher wrote:

Gazman0169 wrote:@Back Lot Basher- I purposely went into DkS blind, aside from knowing that somewhere along the line I would be coming up against two Gargoyles on a roof having seen it on a review show, and whilst it was absolutely brutal and it took me an absolute age to bring one of my characters around to NG+ (almost a year to be precise :oops: , but that was because I got severely tied up in PvPing) I'm mightily glad that I did. Subsequent runs, along with this wiki, have lead me to discover a whole wealth of stuff that I had missed, or that I could of done a heck of lot better, but knowing that I made my way from start to end on my todd was and still is absolutely priceless.

It's certainly a different experience going in blind. I did a lot of the game blind as well. Two of my lowest points were trying to beat Taurus (had no idea I could jump down on him...I kept waiting for him to come up and fight me on the top of the tower, and kept getting tossed off). The other was getting cursed. Fell right in that open grate into a nest of them. Dark days indeed.

LOL I went through blight town backwards so I knew toxic was bad I didnt wait for the frogs make me cursed.

Doing a downward jump on ol' Taurus was the first thing I did to it, but it was sheer luck that I managed to pull it off, which came about from my eagreness to go out fighting. The funny thing is that it was my own cowardice that caused me to be up there to begin with, after I legged it back in the opposite direction when ol Taurus jumped down to greet me. I knew you could get up there, having been shot in the back by the Archers as I initially made my way across the walkway. I tell you it was a mad ol scramble to get back up the ladder, and I almost crapped myself when I realised that it had just missed me with it's forward leaping attack. I ended up loosing the fight, but managed to get him on the third attempt, which prompted me to shut the game down as I was so spent! At least I wasn't as bad as my eldest daughter, who managed to down ol' Taurus in four if my memory serves me correctly, but was such a gibbering wreck afterwards that she has refused to play the game since.

Hands up who's been caught out by the Asylum Demon's upwards jumping attack, after waiting too long to figure out how the heck you're gonna get down to fight it in one piece?

Gazman0169 wrote:Hands up who's been caught out by the Asylum Demon's upwards jumping attack, after waiting too long to figure out how the heck you're gonna get down to fight it in one piece?

Hah, I was lucky enough to see my housemate do exactly that! Got to love the forewarning I had

So we all agree that an Easy Mode isnt wanted yes ?

I remember getting crushed by the Tutorial Boss in Demons Souls as a Royalty .
I literaly was just standing there thinking and saying nothing but "Oh Sh*t" what happened shortly afterwards shoudlnt be too hard to figure out

@Marino- It looks like it, and it's a resounding yes from me. As for the tutorial boss if DeS, I always used to be owned by it, until I started playing DkS, and on a recent trip back to Boletaria I beat it for the very first time, but I didn't just beat it I absolutely slaughtered it, which goes to prove that DkS has helped me overcome my fear in this regard!

Marino. wrote:So we all agree that an Easy Mode isnt wanted yes ?

I remember getting crushed by the Tutorial Boss in Demons Souls as a Royalty .
I literaly was just standing there thinking and saying nothing but "Oh Sh*t" what happened shortly afterwards shoudlnt be too hard to figure out

Easy it isnt needed.

I took 2 swings at the tutorial boss with my broken sword and thought nope its illogical to continue to fight him there must be another way other than fighting.

I only died to him on NG+ cause I thought I was a cool. nope.... i was not.

The Funny thing in Demons Souls is that even when you beat the seemingly unbeatable Tutorial Boss and you are like "" the Game just beats you up literally .

I never laughed so hard in a Soul Game



Also i beat the Asylum Demon. With my Bear Hands

Marino. wrote:Also i beat the Asylum Demon. With my Bear Hands

Well with a set of paws like that big whoop!

Sorry I haven´t responded, I should have as I started the thread and all but I´ve been really busy. Being a dad to a newborn does that. I figured I´d have a look and see if anyone had responded, and this topic certainly seem to spark a lot of feelings in the community. Reading through the replies, there are a lot of interesting ideas, and a lot of intelligently put criticism against an easy mode. I agree with most of them. My thought wasn´t about an easy mode covering the entire game, just a... gentler start for people that get overwhelmed by the game and lose hope.

The idea wasnt to make the game more noob friendly or less hardcore, but just to give people that are struggling with getting to grips with it a way to start feeling more confident and hopefully enjoy more of the game. I love DkS for what it is, and I just figured an easier way in might open it up for more people to enjoy. It´s not about sales, I know the souls-series have done really well, it´s about giving more people a chance at experiencing more of the game. I can however also see how and easy mode, however it´s implemented or how limited it is, might lessen the feeling of accomplishment you get by slowly mastering something really difficult.

Well, that seems to be all the time I had for now. Hopefully I´ll talk to you guys again soon.

The only thing they should do imho is explain at least the Controlls better (not just messages) .

I think it took me a week or so to Figure out how to cast a Spell in Demons Souls