Dark souls 2: Wishlist

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:Can you seriously make an arguement for why someone new to the game should be able to be invaded by someone who lets say has beaten the game three times and is equiped with the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level?

No, that's precisely what I've been arguing against. But the reason I'm arguing against it is because the invader has "the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level," not because he is merely more skilled. In any invasion, one player will generally be more skilled, no matter where or at what level you allow PvP to start. That doesn't make the more skilled player a griefer; it's the abuse of the ability to obtain elite armor, weapons, and spells that makes one a griefer.

OmarTheFuzzy wrote:

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:Can you seriously make an arguement for why someone new to the game should be able to be invaded by someone who lets say has beaten the game three times and is equiped with the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level?

No, that's precisely what I've been arguing against. But the reason I'm arguing against it is because the invader has "the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level," not because he is merely more skilled. In any invasion, one player will generally be more skilled, no matter where or at what level you allow PvP to start. That doesn't make the more skilled player a griefer; it's the abuse of the ability to obtain elite armor, weapons, and spells that makes one a griefer.

Truth be told I'd much rather lose to someone more skilled than me, rather than someone with better gear.

But this isn't about us, this is about new players who are still figuring out how to play, and them getting curb-stomped and potentially leaving the series because of that. They usually have enough of a problem with mobs, why add to that?

Noob-of-Artorias wrote:I've got something else to throw in here.

I want something like a playercard that's attached to each toon.

Basically it would give a rundown of things like playtime, wins and losses, covenant, stats.

But the trick is you can only access this information from the main menu.

Just a thought.

That's a good thought. I just wonder whether having win/loss stats would discourage players from trying out new builds and experimenting with different weapons outside of their comfort level. Whenever you're learning the move set of a new weapon, you're going to lose a lot.

Also, unless they do something about low-level griefing, having such stats available would only encourage more of it.

Finally, not all wins and losses are created equal. (For example, Catbros who are forced to fight 1v2 against higher level gankers are in a different position from a Darkmoon who invades a lower level player.)

I want a program that allows you to see stats like: Steps taken, enemies killed, barrels broken, etc.
Kind of like FATE if you've ever played it.
OH, and fishing!!

Marino. wrote:I dont get it .

Why should we protect new Players ?

Im sure you've played unded burg as a new character both when the game first released, and as a new build to revisit the game lets say- at least I did. Now the difference here is that the first time around you got to experience the greatness that is dark souls online- the helpful messages that made you feel both part of a greater universe and alone, the "praise the sun" that signified the end of a grueling stretch of game, or the ghosts that gave you that laugh of relief after beating a tough boss. And if you happened to get invaded, it would be by someone of equal experience and weaponry. Now try to go through undead burg with a new character now... You wont be able to take three steps without being invaded- by someone who, by the way has nothing to gain from invading such low levels. Its ok for you and me, you have been through that area a hundred times, but I consider it less than sportsmanlike, lets say. Its not about protecting, its about preserving.

Sloth9230 wrote:Truth be told I'd much rather lose to someone more skilled than me, rather than someone with better gear.

But this isn't about us, this is about new players who are still figuring out how to play, and them getting curb-stomped and potentially leave the series because of that. They usually have enough of a problem with mobs, why add to that?

How about this: for some opening section of the game, you can only be invaded if you are human and have a phantom summoned. First of all, the new player won't be feeling quite so overwhelmed, as they'll have a helper; this would actually introduce them to invasions in a context where they're more likely to win, and would thus see it as a positive thing. Second, it would discourage (some) griefers, because they know they'd be walking into a 1v2 situation. (Admittedly, it might not discourage too many griefers if they still have access to elite weapons.)

Another possible problem with my idea is that it might encourage the new player simply to become a ganker.

Sloth9230 wrote:

OmarTheFuzzy wrote:

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:Can you seriously make an arguement for why someone new to the game should be able to be invaded by someone who lets say has beaten the game three times and is equiped with the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level?

No, that's precisely what I've been arguing against. But the reason I'm arguing against it is because the invader has "the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level," not because he is merely more skilled. In any invasion, one player will generally be more skilled, no matter where or at what level you allow PvP to start. That doesn't make the more skilled player a griefer; it's the abuse of the ability to obtain elite armor, weapons, and spells that makes one a griefer.

Truth be told I'd much rather lose to someone more skilled than me, rather than someone with better gear.

But this isn't about us, this is about new players who are still figuring out how to play, and them getting curb-stomped and potentially leaving the series because of that. They usually have enough of a problem with mobs, why add to that?

I am in total agreement with these last two points.

They should add an option for new players to be able to choose if they want to be invaded, for example:

Dark Spirit XxXbbGlitchBSFisharxXx wants to invade, do you approve?
(yes) (no)

OmarTheFuzzy wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:Truth be told I'd much rather lose to someone more skilled than me, rather than someone with better gear.

But this isn't about us, this is about new players who are still figuring out how to play, and them getting curb-stomped and potentially leave the series because of that. They usually have enough of a problem with mobs, why add to that?

How about this: for some opening section of the game, you can only be invaded if you are human and have a phantom summoned. First of all, the new player won't be feeling quite so overwhelmed, as they'll have a helper; this would actually introduce them to invasions in a context where they're more likely to win, and would thus see it as a positive thing. Second, it would discourage (some) griefers, because they know they'd be walking into a 1v2 situation. (Admittedly, it might not discourage too many griefers if they still have access to elite weapons.)

Another possible problem with my idea is that it might encourage the new player simply to become a ganker.

Yeah, though I myself have 'ganked', its also a problem.

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote: Yeah, though I myself have 'ganked', its also a problem.

Just for the record, I don't necessarily think ganking is a problem. If there were no gankers, there would be no ganker-killing, which is the funnest part of the game.

But having ganker-free zones (aka, no-summoning zones) for people who just want to duel would be a nice addition.

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:

Marino. wrote:I dont get it .

Why should we protect new Players ?

Im sure you've played unded burg as a new character both when the game first released, and as a new build to revisit the game lets say- at least I did. Now the difference here is that the first time around you got to experience the greatness that is dark souls online- the helpful messages that made you feel both part of a greater universe and alone, the "praise the sun" that signified the end of a grueling stretch of game, or the ghosts that gave you that laugh of relief after beating a tough boss. And if you happened to get invaded, it would be by someone of equal experience and weaponry. Now try to go through undead burg with a new character now... You wont be able to take three steps without being invaded- by someone who, by the way has nothing to gain from invading such low levels. Its ok for you and me, you have been through that area a hundred times, but I consider it less than sportsmanlike, lets say. Its not about protecting, its about preserving.

Exactly, someones first experience with the series should be preserved, when I first played 1-1 in demon souls I couldn't do it, I quit the game for a week before I gave it a second chance. Luckly I did eventually get through the level and the rest is history. Now I can run through both games, and if I die it's because I was being careless, not because I have no idea what I'm doing. The souls series is hard because of its learning curve, after that you got people doing speed runs and low level runs. this is a PVE game with PVP to enhance it once it gets boring, not the other way around.

Edit: indeed, there is nothing like the satisfaction of killing a ganker, and I think your Idea could work. But they have to make the red soapstone more common(maybe make a vendor earlier on, but they would have to be expensive so that it actually cost something to invade) I don't wanna join a covenant just so I can invade to my hearts content.

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:Can you seriously make an arguement for why someone new to the game should be able to be invaded by someone who lets say has beaten the game three times and is equiped with the best armor/weapons/and spells afforded to his soul level?

I despise griefers, but I think the argument would be human nature, and Fromsoft's apparent fascination with it. I could easily be wrong, but I think that someone (or everyone) at Fromsoft likes to have these kind of things in their game, so we have the opportunity to exploit them.

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:

Marino. wrote:I dont get it .

Why should we protect new Players ?

Im sure you've played unded burg as a new character both when the game first released, and as a new build to revisit the game lets say- at least I did. Now the difference here is that the first time around you got to experience the greatness that is dark souls online- the helpful messages that made you feel both part of a greater universe and alone, the "praise the sun" that signified the end of a grueling stretch of game, or the ghosts that gave you that laugh of relief after beating a tough boss. And if you happened to get invaded, it would be by someone of equal experience and weaponry. Now try to go through undead burg with a new character now... You wont be able to take three steps without being invaded- by someone who, by the way has nothing to gain from invading such low levels. Its ok for you and me, you have been through that area a hundred times, but I consider it less than sportsmanlike, lets say. Its not about protecting, its about preserving.

Of course you're right and i think in simliar Ways.
But really, what can we do about it ?

When someone is more skilled than the other the more skilled one is bound to Win . Thats how it is and how it always will (and should) be .

I liked it how Demons Souls handeled the whole Low level Invasion thingie.
You were stuck in Soul Form (No Summons, Invasions and Half Health) for the first level. Not Tutorial. For the whole first Level which means that you are required to beat it and learn the Games Basic Mechanics and Tactics .
You came Prepared .
That was not the case in Dark Souls .

Marino. wrote:

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:

Marino. wrote:I dont get it .

Why should we protect new Players ?

Im sure you've played unded burg as a new character both when the game first released, and as a new build to revisit the game lets say- at least I did. Now the difference here is that the first time around you got to experience the greatness that is dark souls online- the helpful messages that made you feel both part of a greater universe and alone, the "praise the sun" that signified the end of a grueling stretch of game, or the ghosts that gave you that laugh of relief after beating a tough boss. And if you happened to get invaded, it would be by someone of equal experience and weaponry. Now try to go through undead burg with a new character now... You wont be able to take three steps without being invaded- by someone who, by the way has nothing to gain from invading such low levels. Its ok for you and me, you have been through that area a hundred times, but I consider it less than sportsmanlike, lets say. Its not about protecting, its about preserving.

Of course you're right and i think in simliar Ways.
But really, what can we do about it ?

When someone is more skilled than the other the more skilled one is bound to Win . Thats how it is and how it always will (and should) be .

I liked it how Demons Souls handeled the whole Low level Invasion thingie.
You were stuck in Soul Form (No Summons, Invasions and Half Health) for the first level. Not Tutorial. For the whole first Level which means that you are required to beat it and learn the Games Basic Mechanics and Tactics .
You came Prepared .
That was not the case in Dark Souls .

ahh right, now I remember why I was always in human form, man did I panic every time I got invaded. It also encouraged Co-op since the only way to be human again was to help someone else out.

Just leave it the way it is, new players have to understand that they will die.. A LOT.

Sloth9230 wrote:Exactly, someones first experience with the series should be preserved, when I first played 1-1 in demon souls I couldn't do it, I quit the game for a week before I gave it a second chance. Luckly I did eventually get through the level and the rest is history. Now I can run through both games, and if I die it's because I was being careless, not because I have no idea what I'm doing. The souls series is hard because of its learning curve, after you got people doing speed runs and low level runs. this is a PVE game with PVP to enhance it once it gets boring, not the other way around.

This is a really good point. It's true that I tend to think too much about the PVP aspects at this point in the game's lifecycle, while what really brought me to the game was the PVE.

Of course, that's also a reason to be wary of too much hand-holding or protection of new players. After all, it's precisely because the PVE can be so difficult at first that one falls in love with the game only after one perseveres and succeeds.

I really dislike low-level griefers; but in reality, they're probably much less of a problem than we make them out to be. If a brand new player who's struggling with the game and its mechanics dies 100 times in the Northern Undead Asylum and Undead Burg, maybe 1 or 2 of those deaths (at most) will be at the hands of griefers exploiting the system. The remainder will be a result of the PVE itself. The point is, unless the game difficulty as a whole is nerfed -- and I don't think anyone either desires that or reasonably believes it's a possibility -- every player new to the series is simply going to have to learn for him- or herself (1) to be patient and (2) not to stress too much about dying. There's no real way around that (though I suppose some covenants like WoW or Sunbros could help matters a little.)

[quote="ublug"]

Noob-of-Artorias wrote:

For PvP, if they have something like the gravelord covenant: A covenant orb/item that creates false treasure-bags in other worlds. So when a player tries to pick up the item (lure) in their world they will be abducted into the gravelord's world, like a reverse summoning. Think about it, would you be able to ignore a treasure lying on the ground even if you are 99% sure it's a trap?

And a undead hairdresser! No reason not to change hairstyle during your adventure.

you are actually a genius

Marino. wrote:

ZoltarTheDestroyer wrote:

Marino. wrote:I dont get it .

Why should we protect new Players ?

Im sure you've played unded burg as a new character both when the game first released, and as a new build to revisit the game lets say- at least I did. Now the difference here is that the first time around you got to experience the greatness that is dark souls online- the helpful messages that made you feel both part of a greater universe and alone, the "praise the sun" that signified the end of a grueling stretch of game, or the ghosts that gave you that laugh of relief after beating a tough boss. And if you happened to get invaded, it would be by someone of equal experience and weaponry. Now try to go through undead burg with a new character now... You wont be able to take three steps without being invaded- by someone who, by the way has nothing to gain from invading such low levels. Its ok for you and me, you have been through that area a hundred times, but I consider it less than sportsmanlike, lets say. Its not about protecting, its about preserving.

Of course you're right and i think in simliar Ways.
But really, what can we do about it ?

When someone is more skilled than the other the more skilled one is bound to Win . Thats how it is and how it always will (and should) be .

I liked it how Demons Souls handeled the whole Low level Invasion thingie.
You were stuck in Soul Form (No Summons, Invasions and Half Health) for the first level. Not Tutorial. For the whole first Level which means that you are required to beat it and learn the Games Basic Mechanics and Tactics .
You came Prepared .
That was not the case in Dark Souls .

I'll put it to you this way, I was in undead burg at soul level 18- and I was being invaded by players wearing havels armor. So being prepared is relative. And you're right, the more skilled player deserves to win- but you cant make that point and simultaneously think that the way invasions stand supports that.

I think the lack of hand holding is the reason this community is so strong. and the souls series certainly wouldn't be the same if the difficulty was nerfed. Maybe they should just make the first level mandatory as a hollow or w/e the new games undead condition will be like demons souls. (god I hope they don't take half my life again)

Edit: and yes people shouldn't stress dying too much; after all, life is hardly as precious as one might think... muahahaha!

They should add a marketplace where phantoms can meet and trade items, limited to 100 players per marketplace. Also they should add pets and houses.

Reyl wrote:They should add a marketplace where phantoms can meet and trade items, limited to 100 players per marketplace. Also they should add pets and houses.

Haha yes! I want my very own sif! not sure on houses though, that sounds a lot like fallout (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

this type of thing doesn't really belong in the soul series but I feel ike it'd be fun.
Having two main rival covenants, darkwraiths and darkmoons for example. Each one pertaining to a certain location, that has little to do with the actual game progression (no mandatory bosses/keys or whatever).

But instead have it be a riddled maze containing artifacts (or something?) so players would be able to pillage the opposing covenants headquarters(?). which you could bring back to your appropriate covenant leader. this would in turn allow you to level up and get ARMOR SETS. maybe have different ranks represented by increasingly cool armor sets?

HERE'S the kicker tho. By wearing your covenants armor set (or ring) you will automatically invade trespassers (forest hunter style), and killing them allows you to rank up in your covenant, leading to increasingly cool WEAPONS.

So to master your favorite covenant you will need to be proficient as both a pillaging HOST and as a murderous INVADER.

I just pooped this idea out of my butt and didn't really think about it much before posting. Criticism is welcome!!


edit: I had a problem with being a darkwraith, I never thought the armor was good for my playstyle and I hated that I would invade without it. I want to invade and represent my covenant, so there should be a bit of a variety of unlockable cov items, maybe three armor sets (light/med/heavy) as well as three weps (dagger-shortsword/katana-longsword/hammer-ultragreat) so that you dont have to sacrifice your playstyle to actually feel like youre a darkwraith (for example)

Reyl wrote:They should add an option for new players to be able to choose if they want to be invaded, for example:

Dark Spirit XxXbbGlitchBSFisharxXx wants to invade, do you approve?
(yes) (no)

NO

Reyl wrote:They should add a marketplace where phantoms can meet and trade items, limited to 100 players per marketplace. Also they should add pets and houses.

WTF no lol this is not elder souls for fu cks sake lol you guys are going way over board adding shi t like that doesn't make it Dark Souls 2 JESUS

Look the solution to all this is just a tutorial that explains the basic things of everything:

1) Your controls and basic game mechanics.
2) Basic Online mechanics.
3) Stats, poise, etc.

I'm sure some of you would say that this would be hand-holding, which you think is bad, but it isn't. There is a difference between having a waypath indicator and actually telling you what you can do.

Taking an example an essay that you have to write (about whichever topic): You don't know how to write an essay so you go to the professor and ask: "How do I make an essay?".

If the professor does the former (Waypath indication), he/she would be going around helping you make every single sentence and paragraph.
If the professor does the latter, he/she would explain the parts of an essay and what your focus should be.

The point is (if I made one) that getting a better tutorial helps players know strategies earlier on, which saves some unnecessary frustration. How many players do you think will be more willing to give this game a chance if they knew they can avoid griefers by remaining hollow?