I'm sick of the " elitism " from the souls series

dancash1808 wrote:So your saying the problem with DBZ nowadays is a new director who doesnt understand or chooses togo in a different direction than the old one and the fanbase dont like it ?
thats reassuring

Hahaha the irony.

Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

Best sleep with one eye open.

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

I thought DTB was ok back when it aired, but looking back on it now I think it was mediocre.

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

You mean FMA brotherhood, right? The fake one is incredibly dreary and horribly forced.

You guys should probably make an anime discussion thread.

Good luck not having it get full of arguments over whether Hatsu hatsu no taco was better than Techni Multi-Verse.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/211420/discussions/0/846940248341007983/

http://steamcommunity.com/app/211420/discussions/0/846940248421850883/

Those topics never get old to me.

Serious_Much wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

You mean FMA brotherhood, right? The fake one is incredibly dreary and horribly forced.

When I started watching Brotherhood, my initial impression was "Hmm. This is what Full Metal Alchemist would've been like if it was just a normal anime."

And yes, we're starting this. I've been without power all day due to a snowstorm, and I'm out of town and away from all my normal gaming and nerdy comforts. I could use a good argument about anime instead of hearing "this is how they used to live before Edison" conversations for the sixtieth time. Soon as the family gets some dinner I'll see you in the Anime thread.

If you want me to add fuel to the fire Reaper, in that thread I can just list off all of the anime I hate. Trust me, I'd lose like 100 rep haha.

Reaperfan wrote:

Serious_Much wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

You mean FMA brotherhood, right? The fake one is incredibly dreary and horribly forced.

When I started watching Brotherhood, my initial impression was "Hmm. This is what Full Metal Alchemist would've been like if it was just a normal anime."

And yes, we're starting this. I've been without power all day due to a snowstorm, and I'm out of town and away from all my normal gaming and nerdy comforts. I could use a good argument about anime instead of hearing "this is how they used to live before Edison" conversations for the sixtieth time. Soon as the family gets some dinner I'll see you in the Anime thread.

I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation before, let someone else have a crack at it

Sucks about power though, happens at mine every couple of months.. Woo for stove boiled tea and candle lit dinners!

Tolvo I'm lucky in that way, I don't really hate many anime cus I make sure ill like something before starting it to save disappointment..

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist is the only Anime worth watching, with Darker than Black coming in second.



*Backs away from thread slowly, keeping an eye on everyone in it*

Anime isn't worth watching at all, you should just read the mangas (assuming said anime started from a manga).

i believe there is, though my opinion comes entirely from my experience. when i got demons souls i was about 13/14 and it took me about 3/4 weeks to get though it. but by get through it i did NOTHING extra but still thoroughly enjoyed the game. now that i am 16 and (i hope) closer to a more adult intellect, i have gone back and played it. from what i have played i can now say i never FULLY grasped what the spirit of the game was, as a kid i thought it was all about killing the bad guys that got increasingly harder, now as a slighter older kid i can grasp a little more of the souls spirit. the game was never about killing king Allant the 12th it was about slightly delaying the end. so yes i would say these games have an elite crowd BUT i think saying that only really smart people can play it but only people with a higher intellect can really get into the story E.G. the dead babies in the Vally

It seems like blind Philistinism when DS fans are labelled as elitist simply because theyre passionate about a piece of work and seek to unravel its workings, film buffs or literary connoisseurs arent treated with such contempt when critiquing their heroes. If you take a Michael Bay Blockbuster like Transformers etc and an Arthouse film like Tarkovsky's 'Mirror' (similar sullen tone and depth to DS), as in gaming, one could easily be classed as 'casual' and the other 'hardcore' with regards to their accessibility or mass appeal, as not only are each made for entirely different audiences, theyre designed to elicit entirely different emotions, yet there doesnt seem to be the same ejection of bile from the cinema going opposition as with gaming. Its absolutely fair to say that one demands a certain level of intellect to understand and appreciate compared to the other, but Its unfair to say that a fan of one is elitist while the other is an idiot just because they have a preference towards contrasting content, they necessarily exclude eachother, so there really is no 'elitist' position, just two opposite ends of the spectrum aiming for different audiences, so why is it different with gaming, is it the method of participation that makes the difference?

Leftfield or Hardcore films and games are usually in the minority, sometimes theyre deemed as 'inaccessible' or too difficult to appeal to the mass market so sell fewer copies as a result, but its just plain ignorant to dismiss something as elitist simply because the masses are unwilling to invest what it takes to unravel or understand it. That in is itself an Elitist attitude.

So far, personally speaking, only the Souls series has achieved the depth and intricacy of a great, spellbinding film, thats not to say I dont love other games, im not mono-gamous so to speak, but Dark Souls makes demands that some gamers are either unwilling or incapable of answering, just as many films or books sit willingly beyond the boundaries of some people, so games should be daring in their content also, they should be cavalier with their concepts, push the boundaries of their artform and dare to be different! I spend a lot of time searching for deeper and richer experiences so why shouldn't the games I play be as enigmatic as the books i read or the films i watch.

None of the Souls games (or Tarkovsky's films for comparison sake) pursue vanity or explicit intellectuallism, they exist simply because their artists live in the space between the lines, and some gamers or moviegoers, disenchanted with 'middle of the road' are drawn towards the more cerebral or left-field offerings. Personally I dont get anything from Transformers the Movie, as a 'film' its fairly abysmal, and as entertainment it does its job, but those who enjoy Transformers will generally acknowledge its diametric opposite without demanding it be dumbed-down for accessibility's sake!


Tarkovsky once said 'Cinema is a Mosaic made up of Time', I kinda see DS like that.


some of 'Mirror' for those that are bothered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COLxgCqrWsg

Well yes there is elitism amongst a lot of the fan base, even here. Many games are put down as 'casual' or 'dumbed down' with little argument here or there.

However to say the series itself is elitist is pretty incorrect, the series sets out it's goal of challenging and rewarding players and succeeds in this with little fanfare from the developers.

This is a rarity in today's gaming industry, which backslaps and trumpets it's own 'glorious' achievements and keeps shoving the 'videogames are art' argument down everyone's throats.

So if the opening statement was 'souls series fans can be or come across as elitists' I'd whole heartedly agree with you.

Elitism is awesome. We need more of it. Much more.

ComaPrison wrote:Elitism is awesome. We need more of it. Much more.

Elitism is so good that we should dumb it down so more people would enjoy it.

carlucio wrote:

ComaPrison wrote:Elitism is awesome. We need more of it. Much more.

Elitism is so good that we should dumb it down so more people would enjoy it.

That goes against the spirit of elitism. We need to make it even harder so that all the whiny little casual bit**es soil themselves harder.

ComaPrison wrote:

carlucio wrote:

ComaPrison wrote:Elitism is awesome. We need more of it. Much more.

Elitism is so good that we should dumb it down so more people would enjoy it.

That goes against the spirit of elitism. We need to make it even harder so that all the whiny little casual bit**es soil themselves harder.

you sir are entirely wrong. You would soil yourself because you are not a fan of the SERIES instead you are a fan of the GAME and so stuck in your ways youd see the game fall in place than stumble a few and learn to walk because you stubborn and prideful not an elitist

To be honest I don't think this game should be a concern of elitism, the kind of people who play the game aren't hardcore, its just people who have a good enough temperament to accept the game's gonna repeatedly own you without remorse.

Sadly because of the difficulty and way you make progress i.e. trial and error, slowly learning levels piece by piece, move by move only people who are patient enough will bother to become fans. I can understand the devs wanting accessibility, but because of the necessary difficulty present i'm not sure it could be brought down from it's elitist category to a more accessible reach without wrecking the difficulty curve.

No more vitality. everthing one hit KO's I suppose that would trash pvp but still xD

I never felt such a sense of achievement and reward as when i beat Artorias for the first time, after 3 days of relentlessly taking kicks to the balls everytime that one armed *** decided to nail me on the floor with his buffed greatsword. You would never get that feeling of awesomeness if it is too easily obteined

Dark Souls is the latest game that still has decent difficulty and gameplay, with no difficulty settings, a great storyline free of close-up QTE's and silly memorable-ish one liners, cheap plot twists and the personal problems of your good-guy protagonist.

Pretty much every other game out there has a cake-mode, plenty to choose from for the haters ragequitting at Dark Souls.
DeS and DkS are one of the few to stand out in difficulty and storytelling, it would suck to see it become like one of those "games" crapped out every few months by Ubisoft and Electronic Arts.

That sense of achievement, or sometimes, the "i'm a monster" feel is what makes this game so different from others, and forces you to observe your environment and enemies, and think before you risk doing something stupid. Apparently, there are some people out there who don't like this, and seem to prefer games where you are constantly complimented for anything you do, and be told it's not your fault for anything you suck at.
[/rant]
So yeah, i do think that Dark Souls players are more open minded, more patient, and less egocentric than some other gamers, therefore ready to accept failures and criticism, and to learn.


TL;DR elitism is only a result of the nature of DkS community

"I'm not elitist we are just inherently better than you" <--- we must print this on banners and go protest!

Emergence wrote:Any refinements to the formula that make the game more approachable while preserving the commitment to persistence and adaptation would be completely appreciated by any dedicated fan of the series. But if conceptual changes are made to that formula, then the soul of the series will change. Not necessarily for better or worse, but away from the things that have threaded the series thus far and towards a different demographic completely.

I would expand on this with a simple example: Poise. This was something new that Dark Souls added, which Demon's Souls did not have. It's something I would consider a major change to combat. Yet the basic mechanics remained the same, and I'm sure a lot of veteran players enjoyed the addition.

I always like to see new elements injected into gameplay of a new title, and I'm simply going on faith that From knows how to get this right.

As far as elitism, I have a hard time seeing myself wearing that hat. I love meeting knew players and sharing information about the game. One of the biggest reasons I do low level plays now is so I can meet people new to the game.

I don't think it's "elitism", people just want to matain the formula they like, I mean If you like spicy food you consider youself a "spicy elitist" or maybe only a dude who like spicy food?