Everyone would god-tier at parrying.
And Ciaran having the Hornet Ring on would be pointless.
Agreed. I love backstabs, just not the window. When I played with a no BS rule, I grew tired of it. So many opportunities to punish mistakes or recovery times. Imagine the tank turtles that would abound without backstabs.BLA1NE wrote:Then 90% of the playerbase would stack poise and it would become a stun-locking game. It's already annoying when you're fighting someone in full Havel's, with a small weapon, and he backs himself into a corner to heal. Nothing you can do. Now imagine that tactic being used by 90% of the players, but they don't even need to find a corner. Doesn't sound fun.
Backstabs aren't perfect as they are, hell they're almost broken! But removing them would be a terrible idea.
I know! I used to be so cautious not to backstab, that I'd refrain from many a good opportunity to hit, in case it registered as a backstab! In hindsight, it was a slightly disproportionate response to the issue, but it was the easiest to implement in FC. It'd be better to say "fair backstabs are allowed", but then it's very hard to define what a fair backstab is. Everyone will have different interpretations. But hey, it's just another aspect of the PvP meta-game! It's cool that we can decide for ourselves how much we're willing to allow backstabbing--"outside", it may be lawless; but in our FCs, we make our own rules.reim0027 wrote:When I played with a no BS rule, I grew tired of it. So many opportunities to punish mistakes or recovery times.
-I'll agree that people who evolve their entire playstyle around backstab mechanics IS sad.RedderAI wrote:Backstabs are hugely unrealistic IMO. That fact that it LOCKS you in place is stupid. BS should be soley left to stealth builds. It's retardef that you stand in place for about a second while your opponent winds up to deliver a possible fatal blow. The fact that people rely on BS is just sad. It breaks the game and lessens everyone's joy.
BS should be left to stealth exclusively. Seriously, just implant a system that judges whether or not you are hidden from a player. I hate that people have to figure out how to counter BS. Seriously this is the MAIN reason we don't have too many new pvp'ers. It's really pathetic.
Onion Knight wrote:Dark Souls without backstabs would essentially be this:
Samurainova wrote:Where does one receive such weapons in dark souls?
Onion Knight wrote:Dark Souls without backstabs would essentially be this:
Forum Pirate wrote:My opinion has already been stated by reim, blain and scare so I'll keep it short.
Needs work
Necessary balancing mechanic
Scare hit the nail on the head with his assessment for those of you crying "unrealistic" or "looks stupid." (not to mention all the other unrealistic stuff in game, like giant demons) The animation is just to get the point across, and the concept behind the mechanic is entirely sound.
(as an example, I do jujitsu, our greatest hope in a fight is to get sombodys back exposed because even with our bare hands we'll likely have you unconscious, maimed or dead in less than 10 seconds should we succeed.)
Forum Pirate wrote:The backwards pull because hit detection is client based. Chances are, it was entirely legit on the other players screen. Your "fix" wouldn't actually stop that. Reduced lag would mean its more likely to look proper, but that wouldn't fix it either. The hit detection would need a change to stop that
(and even then, depending on the change to the system, it could happen anyways. Look at sniper kills in COD to see what I mean. The bullet can miss me on my screen, but if it hits me on theirs I'm dead)
Balancing just means that it provides a means to counter another mechanic. Imagine your opponent is wearing full giant's + wolf's ring, and he uses a lunging attack with a DMB'd DGA--he whiffs. If there's no backstab, what do you do? Oh, you're wielding a Bandit's Knife, by the way, you can't even scratch his poise. Do you attack him a few times with your dinky knife until he regains his composure, then you roll away, having dealt a measly few hundred points of damage? He could have dealt around 1000 damage to you on his hit (not to mention possible subsequent hits because you're likely stunlocked), he's left completely defenseless because he missed, and all you can do is a few hundred. Doesn't sound fair--doesn't sound balanced. That's why backstabs are a balancing mechanic. He whiffs, you punish with a backstab that can deal comparable damage.Animaaal wrote:I don't know what you mean by balancing mechanic.
I wish I had never read that!Animaaal wrote:2) Rip their pen!s right off of the inguinal ligament if you can. I mean seriously, RIP IT OFF.
BLA1NE wrote:(By the way, you can give thanks when you're the creator of a thread--only once per thread, I think. It's meant to be used to thank the person who has properly answered your question, if that was the point of your thread.)
BLA1NE wrote:.....I wish I had never read that!.....
Forum Pirate wrote:I'm saying back stabs are a necessary balance mechanic that needs some work. They do what they're supposed to, they just *seem* do more than they're supposed to. (can't be sure having not asked the developers)
Reality does have little to do with fantasy games, but the basic principles of melee combat apply in both real life and in game (even though the implimentation is different), thus this is one of the few reality based arguments that stands.
I don't understand the point of your tangent about self defense, unless its "be as cheap as possible" which, while I agree, isn't an argument against back stabs. (I'm also not sure who you're fighting with, but I seriously doubt you would be anywhere near my nipples as I start an armbar, for a number of wildly off topic reasons, so I'll stop there.)