Game of Thrones

Nah, he's just good at the game. Aegon was evil (crazy).

RantFromRant wrote:Nah, he's just good at the game. Aegon was evil (crazy).

Aegon was crazy evil, Littlefinger is manipulative evil and will do anything and everything for power. You can call it 'good at the game' if you'd like, but the game is inherently evil... and you'd need to look no further than the players...

well tbh I don't think any of them are really evil since they all think they're the good guys and what they're doing is for the good of everyone, that's how I see it.

Serious_Much wrote: I think it's just more the whole scenes of theon having sex with some random bird. It's not like it needs to be there, or it has any relevance to the plot. The show is made so slow and threadbare anyways I'd be glad if they removed some of the sex scenes to allow a bit more progression in each episode

This is valid, and that episode specifically is the episode that I think had a SILLY amount of sex and nudity. Still, I think it definitely says a lot about Theon's character that he would actually take a ship captain's daughter to bed, in that ship captain's own quarters, while that captain he is schlepping Theon around. He's a classless, entitled jerk, and if I knew nothing about Theon before this scene, I'd still understand that from this sheer minute of screen time.

Also, considering the way the scene was casted and directed, to me it seems like they were going for a more comical tone than to flex their meaningless nudity muscles.

Ultimately, though, I think it could have been directed better, which I think is the main reason it seems so pointless, when it actually serves a purpose.

RantFromRant wrote:well tbh I don't think any of them are really evil since they all think they're the good guys and what they're doing is for the good of everyone, that's how I see it.

I imagine we'll see who the good and bad guys really are when the White Walkers come around...

steveswede wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:If I want to watch fantasy, I'll watch fantasy.

I don't want to watch porn in a group setting, though.

I can tell you that sex and naked bodies are a common theme in George Martin's fantasy books. The most recent scene with Ygritte getting naked in a cave and having sex with Jon Snow IS straight from the book.

A Song of Ice and Fire series is adult fantasy so you better get used to it if you want to continue to watch it.

Is it an adult fantasy if it has wonton sex, or is it an adult fantasy because it has a lot of mature themes in it?

Saying something is "Adult" because it has sex is like saying something is "Adult" because it swears.....

And I have read the books, but they took every little scene and turned it into a three-to-five minute porno scene in the films.....

Slarg232 wrote: Is it an adult fantasy if it has wonton sex, or is it an adult fantasy because it has a lot of mature themes in it?

Saying something is "Adult" because it has sex is like saying something is "Adult" because it swears.....

And I have read the books, but they took every little scene and turned it into a three-to-five minute porno scene in the films.....

First off, clearly you don't actually watch porn.

Second, it's 'adult' Fantasy because many of the themes, sex being a mere one, would be too intense for younger audiences, and even difficult for them to understand.

Now, I think 'adult' is a little bit of an exaggeration, as I had a friend who read the books in middle school (or rather, what books existed then) and I'd say, like, an average, not-completely-immature 15-year-old could probably wrap their head around the show, but for all intensive purposes, I'll go with it.

A younger person is going to have a much harder time understanding why Maergery went from Renly to Joffrey, on two opposite sides of a war, than they are, say, understanding the concept behind a band of dwarves running off in search of dragons and treasure. It's going to be harder to wrap your head around why Caetlyn sends Brienne out with Jaime Lannister behind her son's back than it is get the idea of putting on a ring that makes you invisible. They're just simply not going to get a lot of it, due to everything from politics to war to honor, to even the historical contexts and more accurate/realistic aspects of the show. Forget the sex.

I know adults that don't understand things that happen, so to say it is adult Fantasy purely because of sexual content is utterly ridiculous. But to call it pornography because there is the presence of nudity is beyond absurd...

Also, just some further reading (he makes the point by 1:15, but the next scene is quite the effective juxtaposition, if you're interested):

boobs

Also, it soft porn. You can't deny that. The sex scenes are exactly the same as what is in softcore porno. Go to wikipedia and read the definition.

I can deny that quite easily, using (the unreliable source of) Wikipedia:

Softcore pornography is pornographic or erotic film or photograph that is less sexually explicit than hardcore pornography.

Bear with me, here, but to be softcore porn, it would appear that what you are watching must, in fact, be pornography.

Pornography (often abbreviated as "porn" or "porno" in informal usage) (Greek: πορνεία, porneia, fornication) is the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexual gratification.

Game of Thrones does not exist for the purpose of sexual gratification, nor do I believe that anybody over the age of like 13 would tell you that sexual gratification is the reason they watch the show.

So, Game of Thrones fails to be classified as pornography, and thus definitely fails to be classified as softcore pornography.

I didn't mean the whole show, I meant the sex scenes, of which there are an abundance. And sexual gratification is subjective. Can you honestly say that, without a doubt, the only reason the director put those scenes in the show was to advance the story? He knew what the general demographic would be.

Ok, let's say the sex scenes in Game of Thrones are pornography.

So, was the Battle of Blackwater an action movie?

When Robb and that nurse chick fall in love and get married, was that a romance?

Whenever Tyrion cracks a joke, is that scene a comedy?

You don't read a chapter in a book and go "Hm, this book is bad." You don't look at a picture and say, "Hm, I like that tree in the background over by the corner, this entire picture is great!" The best you can do is call it like it is, and keep going.

For example, this season of Mad Men, I think it was Rolling Stone who said, "Mad Men is back!" after the second episode. So, what, it wasn't back after the first one? You, personally, did not find the first episode of the season immensely enjoyable and entertaining, and thus this TV show which garnered thousands to millions of viewers is not actually 'back', but merely pretending to be?

You can't call a scene, a chapter, even an episode of any decent TV show a 'porno' because it just doesn't make any sense. If that's the case, Romeo and Juliet is a porno. Or rather, a SCENE from Romeo and Juliet is a porno. The rest of it isn't a porno, it's Romeo and Juliet, but that one scene, oh man that one scene, now that's a porno if I ever saw one! And you know what else is a porn? That part of Terminator 1 where Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor have sex and conceive John Connor? No way that serves the story, that's a porn. In Pulp Fiction, while Marsellus Wallace is being raped by a hillbilly security guard? Yup. Porn. And that shot of Uma Thurman's feet? Foot Porn.

You can't judge the whole of anything by its pieces. Sure, the show is marketed toward certain demographics, but that doesn't make it about sexual gratification. Most of the nudity is ribaldry at best, and even then it can border on being pretty boring. Like, seriously, how engaging is just seeing some naked person on TV, really?

JohnnyHarpoon wrote:

Slarg232 wrote: Is it an adult fantasy if it has wonton sex, or is it an adult fantasy because it has a lot of mature themes in it?

Saying something is "Adult" because it has sex is like saying something is "Adult" because it swears.....

And I have read the books, but they took every little scene and turned it into a three-to-five minute porno scene in the films.....

First off, clearly you don't actually watch porn.

If you say so.

Second, it's 'adult' Fantasy because many of the themes, sex being a mere one, would be too intense for younger audiences, and even difficult for them to understand.

Now, I think 'adult' is a little bit of an exaggeration, as I had a friend who read the books in middle school (or rather, what books existed then) and I'd say, like, an average, not-completely-immature 15-year-old could probably wrap their head around the show, but for all intensive purposes, I'll go with it.

A younger person is going to have a much harder time understanding why Maergery went from Renly to Joffrey, on two opposite sides of a war, than they are, say, understanding the concept behind a band of dwarves running off in search of dragons and treasure. It's going to be harder to wrap your head around why Caetlyn sends Brienne out with Jaime Lannister behind her son's back than it is get the idea of putting on a ring that makes you invisible. They're just simply not going to get a lot of it, due to everything from politics to war to honor, to even the historical contexts and more accurate/realistic aspects of the show. Forget the sex.

I know adults that don't understand things that happen, so to say it is adult Fantasy purely because of sexual content is utterly ridiculous. But to call it pornography because there is the presence of nudity is beyond absurd...

You know, posting in an arrogant matter doesn't get your point across....

The political intrigue has a great plot behind it, and as I've said, I've already read the books. But to turn a paragraph scene into five minutes just because "It's an adult show" is just a complete and utter retarded reason. I get that some of it should be there due to plot advancement (The incest, for instance). However, what's in GoM is just way, WAY too much.

You're right, the arrogance is just me. The facts and examples I actually use to support my arguments should, however, get my point across.

So, I ask for a fact/example in return: Name ONE scene, involving content that may be considered sexually pornographic, that was written as a single (one, 1, I) paragraph in the books, and was turned into a five (5, V) minute-long scene in the show.

Go!

(If you're having trouble, name ANY scene that was written as a single [one, 1 I] paragraph in the books, and subsequently lasts five [5, V] minutes in the show)

I would also like to take the time to state that, if the nudity and sexual situations in the show make you uncomfortable, that's perfectly fine, and I am not attacking you, your opinions, or your feelings. However, I am attacking the notion, which was put into words by you, that Game of Thrones is pornography, and subsequently made the point that literally nothing can be judged or classified by only looking at one or some of its pieces.

Not gonna lie, GoT is pretty much the only thing I watch on TV these days. Great books, great show!

There's one thing I can't help but think while reading/watching though: even most of the characters are total douchebags (more so in the books than the show), in RL medieval times they were probably far worse. Hell, RL people today are probably far worse.

JohnnyHarpoon wrote:I can deny that quite easily, using (the unreliable source of) Wikipedia:

Softcore pornography is pornographic or erotic film or photograph that is less sexually explicit than hardcore pornography.

Bear with me, here, but to be softcore porn, it would appear that what you are watching must, in fact, be pornography.

Pornography (often abbreviated as "porn" or "porno" in informal usage) (Greek: πορνεία, porneia, fornication) is the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexual gratification.

Game of Thrones does not exist for the purpose of sexual gratification, nor do I believe that anybody over the age of like 13 would tell you that sexual gratification is the reason they watch the show.

So, Game of Thrones fails to be classified as pornography, and thus definitely fails to be classified as softcore pornography.

I have so much love for this post it's unreal- you've unwittingly made me crackup

Also the 'you clearly don't watch porn' line was excellent.

I gotta say i reckon anyone up to the age of 15/16 probably might watch it cus there's a lot of sex in it (I have little faith in young teens), but i agree it's not put in for gratification.. It's meant for character and plot development, as well as the famous 'sexposition' in the first season.

Slarg232 wrote:

steveswede wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:If I want to watch fantasy, I'll watch fantasy.

I don't want to watch porn in a group setting, though.

I can tell you that sex and naked bodies are a common theme in George Martin's fantasy books. The most recent scene with Ygritte getting naked in a cave and having sex with Jon Snow IS straight from the book.

A Song of Ice and Fire series is adult fantasy so you better get used to it if you want to continue to watch it.

Is it an adult fantasy if it has wonton sex, or is it an adult fantasy because it has a lot of mature themes in it?

Saying something is "Adult" because it has sex is like saying something is "Adult" because it swears.....

And I have read the books, but they took every little scene and turned it into a three-to-five minute porno scene in the films.....

I didn't say that it's adult fantasy because it has sex. Sex however is an adult theme which the books and series do have and if you're going to read or watch an adult fantasy then you must be prepared for adult themes. Everyone can agree that this series is not aimed at children.

To be fair I don't understand why they class sex as an adult 'theme'. A theme is a moral, an idea, a concept.. For instance to me an adult theme would be the concept of human trafficking, or organised crime..

Sex is just an action that bumps up the age rating of a show, just like violence, guns and swearing.

This thread got about 1,000x better

Lol! Well lets see how much sex we have to look forward to tonight. I for one am going to make sure if I dont see any on telly and GoT tonight I'm at least gonna see some with the missus! Take that you age restricted softcore-porn show! HA!

The first one was a real struggle to get through, but since then i haven't been able to get enough. I'm on dance with dragons right now, about a third way in. Stannis does have a claim, but i feel like he's turning into a buttmunch. As of right now I hope Daenerys starts her invasion on Westeros soon. as long as John Snow keeps being the most badass bastard in the series and books the throne can bite the curb.

Yesterdays episode is ****. I was promised an incredible development- all I got was Jamie continuing his conversion to pseudo decent chap and daenerys being incredibly arrogant...

The final 3 episodes better be worth all this **** teasing at actual development.

I actually found it ironic, because sex and love in general were big themes in last night's episode, and we were discussing that all week in the thread!

It's true that not much happened, but you gotta love when Tywin gets all up in Joffrey's face and looms over him as his sits on the throne, and no one blinks an eye.

Glaesel wrote:The first one was a real struggle to get through, but since then i haven't been able to get enough. I'm on dance with dragons right now, about a third way in. Stannis does have a claim, but i feel like he's turning into a buttmunch. As of right now I hope Daenerys starts her invasion on Westeros soon. as long as John Snow keeps being the most badass bastard in the series and books the throne can bite the curb.

Was Stannis ever not a buttmunch?

I was disappointed by this episode, the bear pit which I loved in the book wasn't done the justice in the show in my mind. Overall this season has been a snore fest and I think having a smaller budget (so I've heard) than the last two has really taken a toll on it. Budget for the seasons are:

Season 1 - $60 million
Season 2 - $69 million
Season 3 - $50 million

Perhaps season 4 is having the brunt of the cash as both seasons were commissioned at the same time. I'm all for them trying to save money if this is the case but if it's producing seasons without that polish then they're destroying this legacy they're leaving behind.

Spoiler warning do not read unless you want to know.

I hope HBO don't cut out the attack on the wall like they did with the wights on the fist of the first men, we need battles like this being told in it's fullest, both from Giantsbane and Mance plus the attack from Stannis. I'd be really disappointed not seeing giants, mammoths, the attack at the wall entrance with the archers firing at them, throwing frozen barrels off the wall killing the wildlings. Also Coldhands better make an appearance with his elk. I've not read all of ADWD yet but he plays a pretty big roll getting Bran to that cave.