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    Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?)

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    • Post n°1

    Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?) Empty Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?)

    Post by Jansports Thu May 09, 2013 7:30 pm

    You may or may not know my personal opinion. But I feel the truly tier 1 weapons are few. This is because I think there aren't that many of those weapons that can literally stand on their own. The weapons you don't use on a build, you build around them. You give up diversity in weapon selection, eschew buffs beads and wogs (generally, there is an exception) And this weapon is so overwhelmingly awesome you win fights, you don't just win fights you don't feel handicapped by your lack of other options.

    Like the MLGS. It has great scaling, neat pure magic AR for chipping and getting yourself GMB'd (ouch nothings perfect) Has the standard (good) greatsword R1s and two unique R2s that when used well are a honed tool that can punish RollBS attempts, and a host of other things.

    The Murakumo. Because of it's combination of weight, reqs, and scaling the Mura is generally the highlight of a build. And everything you ever wanted to do in melee is available to you, stunlocks, combos, dead angles, huge damage.

    I think you get it, basically the weapon don't need no help to be not just good, but amazing. So without further ado.

    MLGS, Murakumo, GT, SKS, Chaos Blade, Zwei, BSS, Large Club(!) MLBH. Halberd, Claymore

    That's what I think.

    What about you? What weapons do you consider tier 1? What criteria do you use to make that assessment? Will you promise to stay on topic? Please post
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    Post by Dibsville Thu May 09, 2013 7:32 pm

    Iaito, SKSS, Large Club (if you don't backstab with it, love the moveset), Halberd (my favourite weapon), Barbed Straight Sword, Priscilla's Dagger.
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    • Post n°3

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    Post by Saturday-Saint Thu May 09, 2013 7:41 pm

    PvP

    For the PvP nuts! Debate tiers, discuss tiers, and set up tier lists. Play nice.

    I don't consider 'you can build around it' to be what makes a weapon tier 1. To me, 'you can build around it' is like a bare minimum requirement a weapon must meet for me to want to use it at all, since like 99% of my builds are selecting a weapon, then trying to create the strongest build around that weapon that I can.
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    • Post n°4

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    Post by Jansports Thu May 09, 2013 8:00 pm

    "you can build around it" can be said of any weapon. But not all of those builds will succeed on that one weapon alone. I think the Falchion is a great weapon, but I find it underwhelming without a buff.

    With the MLGS I can literally just use that sword and nothing else and not feel lacking.
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    • Post n°5

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    Post by Rynn Thu May 09, 2013 8:28 pm

    I think the Moonlight Butterfly Horn and Velka's rapier are also tier 1 weapons, because you can exclusively build around them, and win fights as well.

    If you're running an int build, you're going to have attunement, or you're not playing smart. Both the moonlight horn and the rapier are standalone weapons that can win battles without the use of magic, but the addition of magic, on top of their superb chip damage, makes them not only the best weapons of their respective weapon classes, but some of the best weapons in the game.
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    • Post n°6

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    Post by Animaaal Fri May 10, 2013 1:15 am

    t1

    SKS, DSS, Demon's Spear, Partizan

    -They get bonuses from leo's ring.
    -Partizan can DA.

    t2

    MLBH, Washing Pole/Chaos Blade, Large Club, others

    -MLBH because you can't get leo bonus is why t2, not saying its a bad weapon.

    *Sorry to post t2, they were just an example of my reasoning.
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    • Post n°7

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    Post by KrazykevS10 Fri May 10, 2013 1:17 am

    Weren't some similar threads locked for ending in argument?
    Some people never learn...
    Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?) 2707236321
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    • Post n°8

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    Post by Animaaal Fri May 10, 2013 1:20 am

    KrazykevS10 wrote:Weren't some similar threads locked for ending in argument?
    Some people never learn...
    Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?) 2707236321

    Thats how those threads begin the locking process. I think debate/arguement is fine, but to steal your emote...

    ...what do I know? Look Skyward

    PS-I see zero wrong with this topic. Shrug
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    • Post n°9

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    Post by Tolvo Fri May 10, 2013 1:25 am

    Most people would say
    Tier 1 imports.(what is tier 1 again?) Alternate-Meta-Knight-Forms-super-smash-bros-brawl-806673_300_210

    Personally I say it is
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    • Post n°10

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    Post by reim0027 Fri May 10, 2013 1:29 am

    Tier 1 - skill. That is the best weapon one could have.

    /thread.
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    Post by Jansports Fri May 10, 2013 2:54 am

    Animaaal wrote:t1

    SKS, DSS, Demon's Spear, Partizan

    -They get bonuses from leo's ring.
    -Partizan can DA.

    The Halberd gets leo bonus and can DA. What (to you) makes it an inferior option to the Partizan, because I feel the criteria you outlined is not actually everything you're taking into account.


    And I'm not really trying to convince people my list is right and theirs is wrong, I just started with my list in the hopes others would share theirs. I am genuinely interested in what qualities people think make the best weapons.

    I mean Theres a bunch of threads about "STR Build, or Dex/buff or whatever" And you can go through it and see like a dozen peoples take on that build, each with their own flare. I think what weapons people think are the best is at least as relevant But for some reason in bold threads people stay on topic instead of degenerating
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    • Post n°12

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    Post by Animaaal Fri May 10, 2013 4:46 am

    Jansports wrote:...The Halberd gets leo bonus and can DA. What (to you) makes it an inferior option to the Partizan, because I feel the criteria you outlined is not actually everything you're taking into account...

    Thank you for asking Bow

    I actually stated my tier one as a class instead of a hybrid.
    That mentality was left over from a previous thread.

    None-the-less, the reasoning was this (in regards to a class):

    -The Partizan is lighter in comparison to the Halberd and SKS when wanting to DA and also stick with the same damage scaling.

    -It requires less strength.

    However, those are the ONLY reasons. In which case, you're absolutely right, the Halbred is a much better choice. Unless you absolutely need those points in strength for something else, or absolutely needed the free weight, the Halbred would be an obviously better choice.

    Again, I didnt consider the tier 1 as an allowable hybrid, my apologies. Ima relist.
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    • Post n°13

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    Post by raecor14 Fri May 10, 2013 5:38 am

    i personally say the falchion, but thats just me ahaha. as for over all, im going to +1 the MLGS
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    • Post n°14

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    Post by xenon_nobelium Fri May 10, 2013 6:18 am

    abyss sword fits your description. http://mmdks.com/1pek this build won me my 99humanity in the burg in a matter of hours. 560dmg and zweihänder reach with greatsword moveset is ridiculous. before you ask, i never felt gimped by the low endurance/vit. definite S+tier if you have the stats for max scaling.
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    Post by Jansports Fri May 10, 2013 12:57 pm

    raecor14 wrote:i personally say the falchion, but thats just me ahaha. as for over all, im going to +1 the MLGS

    Why the Falchion? What about this smooth lovely curved blade draws you so irresistably to it? It's long reach for a curved sword? It's scaling? It's fluid 1hr1?

    I don't care what you think(no offence) but I do care why you think it. ((Thanks Animaaal for explaining your choices, I look forward to your revised list, honestly I look forward to lists you make your penchant for rules is interesting))
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    Post by ICEFANG Fri May 10, 2013 1:02 pm

    Rynn wrote:I think the Moonlight Butterfly Horn and Velka's rapier are also tier 1 weapons, because you can exclusively build around them, and win fights as well.

    If you're running an int build, you're going to have attunement, or you're not playing smart. Both the moonlight horn and the rapier are standalone weapons that can win battles without the use of magic, but the addition of magic, on top of their superb chip damage, makes them not only the best weapons of their respective weapon classes, but some of the best weapons in the game.

    I was gonna say something like this. Both are extremely powerful and deal heavy damage (especially the horn) that most shields can't deal with. Then again, you need a back up, or at least (you need) to back up if someone uses Great Magic Barrier.

    I've also had a lot of success with Soul Spear, as my current build is at 40 INT, it can't use Cry Soul Spear. Its so good for punishing people, its like a better version of the bow, in fact, I was a huge bow fan, and this bow had 321 in magic damage alone, but I never used it, it just never was needed.
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    Post by Jansports Fri May 10, 2013 1:12 pm

    I too love the MLBH, You know if you raise Int you don't need to touch str/dex as a pyro to be able to use it, only spear with sub 10 dex reqs. It's chip damage is out of this world too. Sometimes I like to imagine it has butterfly beam R2s, cause I think that would be really fun to mess with (the slow moving sorta homing attack)
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    Post by Tolvo Fri May 10, 2013 2:06 pm

    Now while I'm against Tiers (They totally exist but I don't religiously recognize them), I suppose I'll list the weapons I consider to be top Tier.

    Murakumo, Demon Spear, Dragonslayer Spear, Pike, Moonlight Spear, Silver Knight Spear, Great Scythe, Lifehunt Scythe, Great Club, Large Club, and Any Bow.

    The Murakumo, dead angles, good reach, deceptively fast attacks, stunlocking.

    Spears, long reach, often excellent chip damage, war of attrition value, the Pike can be buffed, Aside from Demon and Dragonslayer they dure a single type of AR.

    The Scythes, excellent speed, damage, the Great can be buffed, the Lifehunt deals a lot of bleed damage and you can roll out of your own bleed hits, probably the best dead angles in the game, great reach and animations.

    The Clubs, rolling 2 handed R1. Go with this and if you play purely based on being responsive rather than the aggressor you'll probably end up killing them with the hard hitting fairly fast, nearly impossible to parry, dead angling attacks.

    Bows, if you can dodge and just keep firing, you can wear down your enemy. Know how to headshot regularly, you can interrupt healing and many other things, you shouldn't take any damage and will always be leading your opponent into where you want them to be, in my opinion Bows are the most effective weapons for PvP but a lot of the techniques are hard to master for most.
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    Post by Avenger649 Fri May 10, 2013 3:16 pm

    The problem I have with tiers is they are mostly level dependent as that can change the amount of stat points and the potential damage of a weapon.
    For a level 120 tier 1 I would say, Demon spear, Halberd, SKS, great scythe, Demon's great axe (if you know how to use it), Claymore and possible the flamberge( for it's bleed effect) but there are many other weapons that could be classed as tier one.
    The spears are there because they have an insane range and can be used to out-range an opponent completely.
    The halberd with a leo ring can do an absolute ton of damage and has lot's of range.
    The great axe has massive attack power and can kill people really quickly, especially with any buff. It requires a lot of skill to use properly but can destroy people completely when you learn how to use it.
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    Post by Rynn Fri May 10, 2013 3:21 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Now while I'm against Tiers (They totally exist but I don't religiously recognize them), I suppose I'll list the weapons I consider to be top Tier.

    Murakumo, Demon Spear, Dragonslayer Spear, Pike, Moonlight Spear, Silver Knight Spear, Great Scythe, Lifehunt Scythe, Great Club, Large Club, and Any Bow.

    The Murakumo, dead angles, good reach, deceptively fast attacks, stunlocking.

    Spears, long reach, often excellent chip damage, war of attrition value, the Pike can be buffed, Aside from Demon and Dragonslayer they dure a single type of AR.

    The Scythes, excellent speed, damage, the Great can be buffed, the Lifehunt deals a lot of bleed damage and you can roll out of your own bleed hits, probably the best dead angles in the game, great reach and animations.

    The Clubs, rolling 2 handed R1. Go with this and if you play purely based on being responsive rather than the aggressor you'll probably end up killing them with the hard hitting fairly fast, nearly impossible to parry, dead angling attacks.

    Bows, if you can dodge and just keep firing, you can wear down your enemy. Know how to headshot regularly, you can interrupt healing and many other things, you shouldn't take any damage and will always be leading your opponent into where you want them to be, in my opinion Bows are the most effective weapons for PvP but a lot of the techniques are hard to master for most.
    I actually think the small hammers and clubs are better than the great club and large club. They perform the same functions (especially with their rolling attacks having a lot of forward phantom range) while permitting very easy stunlocking, being incredibly light, and not very stat heavy weapons.

    But this is a preference, i think. I actually consider great clubs to be a tier 2 weapon, it's not a very good weapon really.
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    Post by Juutas Fri May 10, 2013 5:13 pm

    I'm pretty much on the same grounds with Jansports with the tier 1 weapons. I would add maybe Quelaag's Furysword and DSS in there.
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    Post by Animaaal Fri May 10, 2013 9:28 pm

    Jansports wrote:...((Thanks Animaaal for explaining your choices, I look forward to your revised list, honestly I look forward to lists you make your penchant for rules is interesting))...

    Thank you, I take that as quite a compliment. Bow
    Before I say “rings” and “damage type” and “blargh” are my “rules of reasoning”… I allude to this wall of text:

    rules?:

    OR....

    Here’s my new list ... :?:

    T1 List:
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    Post by Jansports Sat May 11, 2013 9:25 pm

    I wish people wouldn't allude to how absurd bows can be, I'd like to keep that as unpublic as possible.
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    Post by raecor14 Sat May 11, 2013 9:31 pm

    hate bows, every single time someone pulls one out i know i have lost, that or they are so terrible with them that I win
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    Post by Animaaal Sat May 11, 2013 9:32 pm

    You mean like, hide it from the readers?
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