The Heist! (Dark Souls Stealth Event!) (Hosted by the Sunlight Coalition)

Sentiel wrote:

Instead of a game of stealth and sneaking, this is likely to turn into a violent chase, in which the Thief simply ignores the Guards and tries to evade them. That's not stealth. That's Tom & Jerry.

I am in love with this line, top quality

Serious_Much wrote:

Sentiel wrote:

Instead of a game of stealth and sneaking, this is likely to turn into a violent chase, in which the Thief simply ignores the Guards and tries to evade them. That's not stealth. That's Tom & Jerry.

I am in love with this line, top quality

 

Anyways my views on locations

I'll vote for dark anor londo, tomb and depths. HOwever, I much favour areas which have many ways of moving about in. Places like darkroot garden, the forest, the DLC forest, the abyss chasm, tomb of the giants, depths

I reckon places like sen's fortress would be too difficult. The narrow walkways guarantee any thief could simply get blocked off. Also there's the factor that there is one VERY strict path to move along. The same issue i feel also hinders duke's

Darn. I forgot to comment on the Forest. Thanks for reminding me.
Forest is a cool place, but with no place to hide and it's not as big as Royal Wood. It would be cool if the Thief was SoV though.
However, the Forest has one big problem. There's three ways to get from the Alvina side to the Sif side, but only two ways to get from the Sif side to the Alvina side. If Guards block these paths, the Thief is screwed. Especially because these paths are both very narrow and two peole just don't fit in there.

Sentiel wrote:

Guards

Since Guards will be limited to Medium, or Fat Roll, they can get easily outrunned by the Thief. That means that the Thief can just DWGR around the Guards and dash anywhere he wants. Unless they can stagger the Thief, OHKO him, or have access to stuff like CSS, the Guards have little chance to stop the Thief if he decides to go rambo on them. Even if the Thief has no weapons, as long as he manages to backstab the Guard, the Guard will never catch the Thief again unless he does some fatal mistake.

Guards need to prepare for that, im not going to make this a pure "Get caught and you lose" type thing. There are no levels big enough for a thief just to sneak by, and nobody is going to close their eyes and let the thief sneak around. The point of the event is to get passed guards, whether through sneaking or outrunning, and getting treasure, it will be just as hard for the guards as it will for the theives. Both Teams are supposed to be a challenge.

Sentiel wrote:

Host

The Host should only watch and not participate. He should observe the event and only act if somebody breaks the rules. He can send home Guards and gank the Thief if necessary.
Given the fact that the Host can turn himself almost completely invisible, this creates a big disadvantage for the Thief.
Not to mention what would happen if the host got himself killed.
If you would still insist on the Host actively participating, I'd force the host to equip a visible buff ring, such are Cloranthy Ring, Wolf Ring, Calamity Ring and more. Those should disable the Host from blending with the surroundings by changing his armor selection, to fit the color palette of his background.

If the host gets killed then the match is a tie, the object is not for the thief to kill the host, it's to get the treasure.

Sentiel wrote:

Thief

This is not Demon's Souls. The invader has no way to become fully invisible and not many will fall for the Chameleon.
Unless the Thief is a SoV and invades in dark areas, such are Chasm of the Abyss, Anor Londo (dark), or the Forest, the invader will be extremely visible even from big distances and even while using the Ring of Fog.

The Guards are prepared for the Thief and know where he spawns. As such, they can simply use the third person camera to peek around corners and camp areas which the Thief is likely to go through.

Many areas have only one, or two ways to proceed, regardless where the Prism Stone rings are placed. As such, if the Guards camp these spots, they will run into the Thief sooner, or later. Not that it really matters, because as I already said, they can see the Thief from miles.


Instead of a game of stealth and sneaking, this is likely to turn into a violent chase, in which the Thief simply ignores the Guards and tries to evade them. That's not stealth. That's Tom & Jerry.

I am looking for a viable way to change the thief into the host, and scouting easy to reach areas for the host to get to that won't involve killing many enemies or cause random summons.

Sentiel wrote:

Restrictions

SL 75 is a poor choice. Most of us don't have a character on that SL. Past Forum Events used SL 55 characters. I think this would be a better option. It would enlarge the power gap between the Thief and the Guards even further, forcing the Thief to evade direct confrontation with the Guards. Of course, using even lower SL toons is encouraged.

You want me to make a thief the host, but you want him to be SL 55. for SL 100 invaders to invade a 55 host you would need alot of pixie dust and hacks.

Sentiel wrote:Ghost Blade will do similar damage to Dagger +5, however it is a lot less viable for actual fighting and can't be buffed.
Dark Hand is very visible and creates a sound that the Guards can use to pinpoint the Thief's location, or can be used to lure the Guards away. It also has very low Stability.

Ill consider the Ghost Blade as a weapon.

Sentiel wrote:I'd disallow the Thief to use Wolf Ring and DWGR. Even with 40 Poise, the Thief can soak up some smaller hits, and continue on running away.
DWGR roll spam is faster than sprinting and it has the most i-frames out of all rolls. That is very unfair to the Guards, as a DWGR spamming Thief will be unstoppable for them.

I might get rid of the Dog Ring if poise is a problem, not the Dark Wood though, we are gonna have some ninja cosplayers.

Sentiel wrote:The Guards should be SL 100, or even higher. Bring your SL 713 if you want. The Thief is not supposed to fight the Guards, so their SL plays little role.

Not everyone has a SL 713 in their pocket, including me. The Guard will not get higher because a 75 rsd to a 100 host is still a little difficult to connect.

Sentiel wrote:The Guards should be disallowed to fight any enemies that currently don't have aggro on them, or the host unless the Thief is present in the world. As such, they can simply clear the area of all mobs before the Thief even gets there, which can hinder the Thief.

"The Thief will be impossible to catch. So we should get more enemies to help him."

Sentiel wrote:I believe that if the event would be played out like this, it will force the Thief to actually try to sneak around the Guards, instead of just running past them, or fighting them.

If he risks running past then thats his fault if he dies, if he is skilled enough to kill three guards that have no restrictions then there is no problem with that either.

Sentiel wrote:

Areas

The areas should be large, with many possible ways to reach the target Rings.

Royal Wood - It's giant and allows the Thief and Guards to move freely, while keeping an eye on their surroundings. This will be great for those using ranged attacks instead of melee.

Undead Burg - It's a bit cramped, but has it's options, especially if we use the first area and Havel's tower as well. Tip: Use the Doors

Depths - Those tight corridors can be a problem if the Guards will camp in them, other than that the area is okay.

Catacombs - Same as Depths really. Also viable, large, with many shortcuts and places to hide.

Tomb of Giants - The darkness will hinder all phantoms, as it makes them super visible. Same to the Prism Stone Rings.

Archives - Way too many places where the Thief just HAS to go through and can be camped.

Ariamis - This place is perfect as long as all paths are open.

Anor Londo - Great place for stealth, be it light, or dark version. However the main cathedral and blacksmith door must be open, to allow the Thief to use more paths to move around. Also, no locking out the Thief with the elevator and forcing him to use only one available route.

New Londo - The darkness will also reveal all phantoms, but the area is complex and has some interesting shortcuts that can make up for this. Not really sure about this one...

Township - As long as the elevator works and no one will camp around it, this location is also usable. However, it also holds many risks for the Guard team. I'm also not very sure about it...

Sen's Fortress, Crystal Caves, Chasm, Darkroot Basin and Blighttown are useless. There's way too many ways the Thief can use the enviroment to kill the Guards and the Host. Simple Force spam will ruin the game.


I'm not trying to criticize, or bash on the event. I like it.
I just want to make it better, improve it and as such I offer a few (lol) suggestions.

I agree with some of your points with the areas thing, but alot of them I don't. You are trying to make the thief have a golden road to walk on, but you are taking his fuzzy slippers.

If you don't understand my metaphor then I mean about how you went on about how OP the thief is, but now you're saying that the areas will be against him and the guards should be nerfed.

Thats the point, the guards are op and the area is tricky, like a normal robbery.

If you don't like the event the way it is you can start a petition to change it I don't care, but it's staying like this because ive gotten threats from other people that they will leave the event if I change it because you wanted me too.

Update:

Thief has been brought up to SL 90 and has became the host, this is a major change and will help the thief alot, but will also have some downsides as he will no longer have phantom silence and will lose a ring slot.

Wilkinson3424Update: wrote:Thief has been brought up to SL 90 and has became the host, this is a major change and will help the thief alot, but will also have some downsides as he will no longer have phantom silence and will lose a ring slot.

why would he lose a ring slot? ps3 btw

Wilkinson3424Update: wrote:Thief has been brought up to SL 90 and has became the host, this is a major change and will help the thief alot, but will also have some downsides as he will no longer have phantom silence and will lose a ring slot. 

jerrmy12 wrote:why would he lose a ring slot? ps3 btw

Fixed that for you jerrmy...hope ya don't mind.

I presume its just to make it harder jeremy

Plus ahho... was there something to fix?

Serious_Much wrote:I presume its just to make it harder jeremy

Plus ahho... was there something to fix?

Yeah! But now its gone LOL

Hmmmm....Serious!!!  

(unless my page glitched, of course...but my money is on serious godly powers intervening from on high! LOL )

You are having fun! You devil...you!!!

Sen's Fortress and Duke's Archives are in the lead, I personally like both and would both be very different experiences.

And Aural Decoy and Alluring skulls are allowed if they weren't already.

It would appear that there is a tie now. Between Dark Anor, Sens, and the Archives!

Archives are too linear and with few hidy-holes...really. The caves are again too linear with even less cover.

Sens would be cool. But as some one said that would depend on guard placement and patrol area.

Dark Anor...actually abounds in opportunity!!

I don't understand why there is only one ring slot available. Can someone please explain?

@Wilk (Sorry, can't quote atm)

My ideas were an attempt to balance both parties and to discourage the cat and mouse game as much as possible, while promoting the sneaking around part.

Well, at least I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading that huge wall of text.

Looks like Sens, just might be it! I'm cool with that. Sen's is my Assassin's playground. She is good at being sneaky. Oh,Yeah!!

Not that I am using my assassin

Wilkinson3424 wrote:Update:

Thief has been brought up to SL 90 and has became the host, this is a major change and will help the thief alot, but will also have some downsides as he will no longer have phantom silence and will lose a ring slot.

 I personally would rather that the thief was the lower level and retained both ring slots however that is just me.

TehInfamousAmos wrote:

Wilkinson3424 wrote:Update:

Thief has been brought up to SL 90 and has became the host, this is a major change and will help the thief alot, but will also have some downsides as he will no longer have phantom silence and will lose a ring slot.

 I personally would rather that the thief was the lower level and retained both ring slots however that is just me.

Yeah, lvl 90 kinda nerfs the thief challenge build a bit. But I'll work with whatever Wilks decides. Just please don't level the playing field too much....challenge is the better part of Fun!!

The Reason I brought the thief up was because he is hosting, and a SL 100 can only invade down to 90.


I took one ring slot out to make up for this, people will need to invest in spells for maximum stealth.

Sentiel wrote:@Wilk (Sorry, can't quote atm)

My ideas were an attempt to balance both parties and to discourage the cat and mouse game as much as possible, while promoting the sneaking around part.

Well, at least I gave it a shot.
Thanks for reading that huge wall of text.

Yeah they are both unbalanced, and both have their pros and cons, we will let the event work itself out and see what rules need to be changed, because there will always be the tryhards that will find a loophole and make it not fun.

My issue with sens is that its linear :/ the only place where you have an option to go a different way to the end of the level can be intercepted easily, and the walk ways in sens are very narrow which will be easier to exploit than other areas

I guess it means advantage to the guards as we'd like, but tbh it might be a little tough for the thieves.. I guess that we'll see, I'm sure the expanse of talent we have here wi be able to overcome the odds and find some way to outsmart and compete with the squads.

Also wilk I'm not sure this has been covered yet but will guards be static or patrolling? Could make a huge difference to the way a thief goes about the runs

Ahhotep1 wrote:Looks like Sens, just might be it! I'm cool with that. Sen's is my Assassin's playground. She is good at being sneaky. Oh,Yeah!!

Not that I am using my assassin

  LOL it was me who decided and broke the tie. Sens is the ultimate challenge for thieves.

Well Guards are SUPPOSED to patrol around, but if they stick around they risk the thief slipping by them and then the thief won't have to worry about it anymore. The thief has to scout and see the guard's habits, this event will be based on patience, deception, and patience.

bump

This saturday huh?

I migth have to drop out as it's my (not so young) Nephew's 21st birthday and we'll be getting krunk.

However if it's moved (his work is playing him around) then ill come with my SL100 guard. A samurai's good enough right?  Or maybe I'll bring andarta... choices, choices..