certain hammers actually can't be escaped with out toggle but others can be escaped without toggle, so far the reinforced club and the giant black smith hammer seem to be the two infinite stun hammers, where as the mace can usually only get off 3 hits etc.
I've smacked people with a reinforced club +15 at 27 str while 2handing it, and they got out without toggling after 3-4 hits. Unless this stunlock is for 1h only (I doubt it, but maybe), then I'm not seeing an "infinite stunlock". I know how a toggle-escape looks, too. Some people toggled out much sooner, but I've rarely seen reinforced club get past 4 hits on virtually anybody. Even with no visual evidence of a toggle, people roll out of it. The % of people getting away when I simply mashed r1 on a stunned player was pretty enormous, so it's hard to conclude "infinite stunlock". Granted, 4 hits on someone is very powerful and if you're buffed it will kill a lot of builds outright, but it's dangerous to assume the other guy isn't getting out unless he toggles. Stagger-stab is a much stronger option as it will do more total damage and is harder to avoid even for togglers.
Depends on the exploit, things like Dead Angles and Toggle Esapes I consider to be good accidents that improve the game overall. Things like Tranquil Walk of Death though I feel should really be removed. In general, if it hurts the game it should be patched and if it enhances the game it should be left in.
Unfortunately, it's a matter of opinion. Some consider toggle-escapes "good", but the stunlock was built into the game deliberately, and bypassing it drastically alters weapon balance. Dead angling also alters weapon balance.
You could argue that TWoD alters weapon balance more, IE makes even fewer things viable, however given the conditions for triggering it someone who used it constantly would still die to a fair amount of invasions once people became familiar with the threat. An alternative name for it is "tumblebuff", and if someone tries to set that up with an opponent nearby he's going to get fished and stabbed into the ground in no time flat before he can both buff and activate the r2, or his opponent is simply going to run away and stall the buff.
All of these are glitches that affect what you can and can't do. TWoD bothers me more than the others, but the simple reality is that such is just an opinion. If you accept one there is little logical sense in not accepting the others. It's a bit ridiculous to start pointing fingers at people for using game-altering glitches when they themselves use game-altering glitches that are "less game altering to some degree".
I could see a player who loves str stunlock weapons using TWoD on someone who toggle escapes him, and he would be 100% justified in doing so and every bit as within the game rules as the guy toggle escaping. Same deal for dead angles. Short of pre-agreed competitive rules between players who arrange a duel ahead of time, there is no justification for only frowning on some glitches and not others, when all of them truly affect balance.
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by twilightwarwolf Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:47 am
