The Darkroot Woods

Maybe someone wrote Sif instead of Shiva once or something.

Dough you are literally thinking of an earlier post by me, and I did accidentally replace Shiva with Sif haha.

It almost leads me to believe that the Ring and Sword/Soul of Sif are of no interest to Alvina, that merely the graves are. I mean when you think about it, you don't really disturb the graves. Sure you fight on them, but still you don't really mess with the graves. You may loot the Hornet Ring, but that seems like an intruder's body.

A little off topic with shiva and sif...but maybe the hydra is guarding oolacile from being discovered and rescued? And the golem is just a last resort to keep her captured. Maybe Seath wanted some of the sorcerey she had...

That's a possibility, but I think more so the Hydra is there by chance really. It seems to not really be allied with the Golems as it will kill them without really caring, which I doubt was unintended on part of From.

I do believe Seath would want the magic of Oocatile, but I just don't see the Hydra being too mixed up in things. After all the one in the Great Hollow seems like it doesn't have any affiliations either.

Dr. Demento wrote:A little off topic with shiva and sif...but maybe the hydra is guarding oolacile from being discovered and rescued? And the golem is just a last resort to keep her captured. Maybe Seath wanted some of the sorcerey she had...

Thats basically the current theory. Seath wanted Dusk's magic for his own, since he's the master of sorcery and all.

Lol Tolvo well that makes sense.

Actually something kind of leads me to believe Seath might not be too interested in her magic. A maiden that has interesting magic and all he sends are Golems to guard her? Why are there no Channellers there? They are purposed to kindap maidens and bring them to Seath, why would he just want to leave her in the Garden if he wanted to harness her magic?

Because he doesnt want to kidnap Dusk. he doesnt want to experiment on her like the other maidens. Instead he wants to steal her sorceries. She's hidden in the golem, which could kill most things, until she is needed.

But wouldn't he want her close to him so that he could be trying to gain her sorceries? Why have her so far away? I suppose he might not want to risk a single channeller being defeated on his way back and losing her somewhere, but I kind of always assumed they could Teleport to the Duke's because of their spell.

To use your own theory against you (or mit might be skare's, Im not sure) isnt the forest meant to be this forgotten place? What better place to store your secret prize than a place no one remembers and that is guarded by a band of bandits and a masive wolf?

Brilliant theories here guys you are keeping me interested in Artorias. I will find out what he looks like some day. Seems the forest has links to many aspects of the Dark Souls world.

Damn, hoist with my own petard.

I can see the point to doing it, though it does beg the question that if Seath has influence here and that he might be in cahoots with those who are against Artorias, why isn't there a bunch of Butterflies and Silver Knights with sentinels marching into Darkroot?

A thief does not pay heavily armed men to guard his secret treasure. he uses hidden traps, a minimal amount of guards, the shadows and stores it in an out of the way place. If there were more butterflies and golems it would be suspicious but the amount he has is small and out of sight. Hes using the gardens own defences not his.

Hmm, and while Seath may be allied with other forces, that doesn't necessarily mean he'd just tip them off. He might save it for a rainy day, or just plan to use this advantage later down the road to betray them. He's done it before, why wouldn't he do it again? I mean when you boil down to it, Seath only ever does look out for number one.

Tolvo wrote:Damn, hoist with my own petard.

I can see the point to doing it, though it does beg the question that if Seath has influence here and that he might be in cahoots with those who are against Artorias, why isn't there a bunch of Butterflies and Silver Knights with sentinels marching into Darkroot?

Perhaps the rumour or legend of Artorias persists and they feel that they are unable to make a move on the Grave.

The whole testing ground theory and Sif could all be to try to repliacte another Artorias hero figure to make the journey into the abyss where Kaathe would sway you to his side. Or merely to create a hero with Artorias capabilities for both the faith based miracles and sorceries.

There is no other character, not even Gwyn hisself, who is able to do what Artorias was able to.

That's another idea, in fact maybe you are supposed to surpass Artorias actually. He fell to the Dark, but what if you are not supposed to, what if you are to go into the abyss, defeat the four kings, than resist Kaathe? Actually a small idea that while unlikely, is on mind. Artorias joined the covenant with the beasts of the Abyss right? Beast believed to be Kaathe, but...What is Kaathe? Serpent, or Dragon. There is a covenant of Dragons, just an idea I had on mind at the moment.

Does Kaathe say anything about Artorias? Because the sealer doesnt talk about him like hes a bad guy. maybe Artorias only pretended to join the darkwriaths? He was actually still working for gwyn the whole time. Explains why he has such an important grave.

I would like to think surpassing Artorias is as simple as going to the Abyss and not joining Kaathe but then again Artorias was reputed to be a very intelligent and faithful knight. He was a Leader and an experienced fighter.

His legend preceeded him and echoed throughout the ages. Every player beats the 4 Kings. If that were the case I would think less of Artorias.

If the forest were a training ground for prospective Artorias replacements (and it seems to me they throw every type of NPC character at you save Pyro i.e- Cleric, Mage, Thief, Warrior, Pharis) then that would be a good place to learn how all of the basic play styles work so that if you wanted to you could combine them all together.

Also can we be sure of Artorias loyalty to Gwyn after, im assuming Kaathe told him about the flame, what he found in the Abyss. Doesn't a ring or something say he made a deal with the beasts of the Abyss?

Sure he made a pact, but that doesnt mean his loyalties changed. He took the ultimate sacrifice for his lord, dealing with the very creatures he hated so he could fight them better. He might not have believed Kaathe.

Good point though I have to voice my lastest question if thats the case. If he didn't die in there where then did he go to die? Not where is he buried but where did he die his final death.

He may have died in the abyss still. Taken the ultimate sacrifice and kept the darkwraiths and the kings in new londo long enough for the sealers to flood it.

The Covenant Ring of his does. Actually, Kaathe is a serpent, a being known for being manipulative. Both him and Frampt are quite suspicious and obviously use you to their ends...But, in this they are arrogant. Maybe, Artorias merely let them think he was another Pawn. Also, I don't believe the Serpents of the Abyss are the enemies of Gwyn, Frampt is supposedly a friend of his. As well, Gwyn wears armor with their visage upon it. Why would he do this if they were his sworn enemies?

For the proving ground, my main concern is why Alvina would be doing this after his death unless he was told to by her. Or if maybe it is cooincidence, or he asked her to watch over the graves as a way of doing this without letting her know. Actually, in regards to becoming like Artorias, you actually befriend Alvina as you go along. She mentions having high hopes for you, and as you progress in the cov she mentions how proud of you she is. As well the only way to betray the cov is by attacking her, or another hunter, making a pact with the beast of the Abyss doesn't cause you to betray the covenant. So many ideas, man Darkroot, why do you have to be so interesting!

Yeah but I get the whole "Sword in the Stone" vibe whenever I got to fight Sif.

Its as if when I pass the Trail by Arms Sif bequeaths to me the blade nott just his soul (both of which can be seen as parables of one another)

You're going to bring me back to it, but it's very Athurian. Think about this, what if Artorias is awaiting somewhere resting until the time he is needed, this is a land where time fluxes after all. It reminds me of Arthur after his battle with Mordred, awaiting the end where he will do battle along side his knights and followers who are still left, his sword Excalibur no longer with him. This could also seem like Gwyn, but Artorias fits the bill as well. Not to mention, where he is hidden is on an island that can only be reached via a magical spell while riding a boat...DLC?

Also Viral, have you ever considered that Artorias might have become a black knight? His shield kind of reminds me of them, as well his sword is of a similar design to the Black Knight Greatsword.

Lets just hope its not a case of "thinking too much into it".

Kaathe is an enemy of Gwyn. He despises Gwyns age of fire and wants the age of darkness to begin for his own reasons. If you note in the dark ending -

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Acidic has mentioned this, but it seems like they are playing both sides. Either way, they win.

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