PvP Honor - An Intelligent Discussion

If it's a clear pvp situation like at the Kiln then I will take the bow honorably. Anywhere else where I am invading and the player is trying to finish the stage, bow or no bow he/she is going down.

The only times I care about bowing is if 2 of us kills 2 of them. And I bow to my partner to say good job.
If someone bows to me before we start and he is close I will not bow. If he is far then yes. If he bows to me and he is close and fights good and I win then I bow. Otherwise I don't. Dark Souls is the street. hehe

I'll bow from a distance or bow in response to a bow. I've never been bs'd during a bow, and I've never bs'd anyone else during a bow. I plan to keep it that way.

This boils down to whether it is a kiln PvP/duel or whether it is random invasion in the way of a boss.. imo

Well I think anyone can agree that any sort of "duel" comes with some inherent honorable tendencies. Whether that be Kiln or red soapstone. Needless to say, that's a very small portion of the game, and even the PVP aspect of the game.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not trying to limit this conversation directly to bowing, as it relates to honor. I'm more trying to address the current situation as a whole, as it relates to everyone's daily PvP lives, and what should and shouldn't be expected/assumed.

Agreed, though PvP in 'agreed hotspots' is a part of it, I'd say random invasions are much more significant and important to the game itself, but thats another discussion entirely..

I'm not sure it's a different discussion. I would see complaints/gripes and overall issues about random invasion PVP, and the lack of honor, constantly. And while hotspots may be a popular place to find fights, I'm not sure you're doing yourself any justice expecting to constantly find "honorable" encounters outside of the Kiln.

Yeah, i just call Kiln more 'honourable' as it's generally got better manners than a random invasion..

then again Forest is a hotspot and all you get there is farming blue phantoms..

I dont generally think outside kiln anything is honourable, anything goes and thats the way invasions are meant to be.

I almost always bow, and then proceed to fight without backstabs or healing... if he doesn't bow though, then anything goes for me

If he does not bow = firestorm, power within, backstab, Wrath of Gods, TWoP.

LOL basically if they don't bow, magic assault them to death XD

not bowing for me = on the ground NOW!

ehh, when im fighting in the kiln, seems pointless bowing sometimes. but thats me hosting 1v1, so generally "honorable" fights anyway. when im invading as a darkmoon its a different story.

Whenever I find myself being ganged up on by more than one player, either as an invader being farmed or as a host, honor goes right out the window. I'll pull out every trick in the book in order to win. When I invade a world and I already see the host in a fight, I'll usually let them duke it out and allow the host to heal before bowing and starting to fight

I once had an amazing 3-way fight. I was a wraith, invading in the forest. I invaded host, almost immediately after a darkmoon invaded him (definetly not forest protector). We proceeded to duke it out, all of us for about 5 minutes, finally ending with a well timed firestorm from the Darkmoon.

To me, situations like that don't happen if you're constantly concerned with being respectful/honorable, and not just diving in and playing the game.

Also, JBeast. Love the scythe and love the sig :albino:

Sometimes I do like to invade worlds outside of the "PvP areas" and when I'm a low level, nothing beats using chameleon and waiting for someone to walk by... especially in Sen's Fortress or Tomb of the Giants. I don't do it a whole lot, but causing a little mayhem is always fun as a Darkwraith...

And nothing beats using the Lifehunt Scythe and Priscilla's Dagger... I can't get enough of making people bleed out in PvP

JBeast wrote:nothing beats using chameleon and waiting for someone to walk by... especially in Sen's Fortress or Tomb of the Giants. I don't do it a whole lot, but causing a little mayhem is always fun as a Darkwraith...

Dude, tell me about it. Causing a "little" mayhem isn't what this game is about, IMO. Cause more!

I can't really complain about people not bowing before a duel, usually is only some 5% or less.
I remember once when I was a Forest Hunter, I spawned just by the door from the bonfire.
The host and a white phantom were close to the spawn point, but were not camping.
The host came my way just as I was bowing. Surprisingly, he steps back, and bows back before coming closer.
Of course I waited, and then I lost.
That was a gentleman.
In the end, those are just nonverbal agreements, but at least for me it's a world of difference from just running up and trying to kill the opponent.

i always bows,before and after,except when i invade and 3,2 vs 1 rushing at me.

I'd like to try and stay away from this devolving into everyone's bowing habits.

Let's try this.

I see alot of people talk about fair fights, unfair tactics, 3v1 situations, etc. Does it strike anyone that at no point in the game is there a situation, aside from the rare phantom vs. phantom, where one player isn't given a significant advantage via Estus? It makes you consider the developer's idea of "fairness"

I think that mostly has to do with the fact that when the dev's created this game the idea of invasions was really geared towards hindering someone from progressing through an area, rather that PvP duels. By taking away estus from the invader it gives an advantage to the host since they have a lot more to lose.

Dueling is really something that the Dark Souls community has created and established "rules" about. The whole idea of fairness has nothing to do with anything concrete

I've learned to never bow first as a host but I do as an invader unless I face a 1v2 or 1v3 situation. I've been backstabbed way too many times bowing as a host...

When i invade i usually try and bow at a distance to see how the host will react. If he bows back then its good. If not then its all good as well. Doesn't really bug me.

When i get invaded i usually wait for the invader to do the first move.If he bows then i bow. If not, then i don't.

Also depends how far the invader bows. if hes near me... i usually don't bow. Im just trying to avoid being cheapshot with a BS. Its still an invasion after all so the invader is usually there for my head.

a good idea for a next game( who knows) could be an area where you can only fight 1 on 1 without healing or that both can heal. but i guess thats another game. the thing about pvp is that because it doesnt have a set or rules anything goes and thats where frustration comes. between lagstabs hosts only healing phantoms or that kind of stuff that is still legal in the game bothers some people. the important thing is, do not forget is just a game and the porpuse of it is to have fun. between my rants and outbursts i do have fun, but when i put down the control i remember is just a game.