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    The Search for Lore

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    Post by ublug on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:51 pm

    I'm uncertain if these observations have been discussed before. I was going to post it in another thread, but I think it's more suited here: Three wise monkeys.

    Speak no evil: The firelink shrine bonfire is tended by a mute firekeeper.
    See no evil: The quelaag's domain bonfire is tended by a blind firekeeper.
    Hear no evil: The Anor Londo bonfire is tended by an undead firekeeper, but she is also a member of a covenant that punishes sinners, and retrieves their ears as souvenirs. What then happened to the previous firekeeper, who should have been deaf. Is the covenant and souvenirs of reprisal related to her, and what happened to her?
    Do no evil: (This can go two ways)
    1. The Anor Londo bonfire is tended by a firekeeper with her arms crossed. She is a member of a covenant that punishes sinners. From what we learn about her she most likely became a firekeeper at a later stage than the others.
    2. The Ash Lake bonfire is tended by a stone dragon, it doesn't have any arms, but at least it is idle. The bonfire is lit and kindled by default, but we can not kill the dragon so we will never know if it's actually tending the fire.
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    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:53 pm

    Sen is the blacksmith deity eh? I had my suspicions but God of War? im not so sure Cook.

    I like the reasoning behind others' idea for andre being god of war though there are many who fulfill other reasons better.

    Great debate, but i hope you guys can keep it civil happy


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    Post by Gol on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:43 am

    ublug wrote:I'm uncertain if these observations have been discussed before. I was going to post it in another thread, but I think it's more suited here: Three wise monkeys.

    Speak no evil: The firelink shrine bonfire is tended by a mute firekeeper.
    See no evil: The quelaag's domain bonfire is tended by a blind firekeeper.
    Hear no evil: The Anor Londo bonfire is tended by an undead firekeeper, but she is also a member of a covenant that punishes sinners, and retrieves their ears as souvenirs. What then happened to the previous firekeeper, who should have been deaf. Is the covenant and souvenirs of reprisal related to her, and what happened to her?
    Do no evil: (This can go two ways)
    1. The Anor Londo bonfire is tended by a firekeeper with her arms crossed. She is a member of a covenant that punishes sinners. From what we learn about her she most likely became a firekeeper at a later stage than the others.
    2. The Ash Lake bonfire is tended by a stone dragon, it doesn't have any arms, but at least it is idle. The bonfire is lit and kindled by default, but we can not kill the dragon so we will never know if it's actually tending the fire.


    About that dragon, it's just a Firekeeper who turned into a dragon, I think.
    That wouldn't be the only firekeeper who's part of a covenant and definitely not the only firekeeper who proposes to join a covenant.
    "She" has black fur, like the character when he turns into a dragonoid, it's the hair in fact.

    I don't know what could've turned her into a dragon, humanity maybe... or the flame or just the time.

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    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:53 am

    Gol...I can buy that. I was just picking on how Seath and the Firekeeper Dragon would be considered "runts" (probably banana flavored ones) as the Drake sword implies that the Drakes are smaller ("underdeveloped") and the drake is just as big as Seath and this Dragon. Also, Domnhall tells you about the covenant by explicitly stating that it is for persons looking to become dragons. Maybe she found a scale of immortality. Bet Seath would be pretty angry if he knew that!

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    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:41 pm

    So I just reread Acidics last maor post and am ready to put put my ideas on it.

    On the placement of the titanite demons - The titanite demons only came into being when the blacksmith deity "passed" (whatever that means) therefore they were not placed where they are on purpose, rather at one point their were titanite slabs positioned near them out of which they came.
    The one in anor londo is easily explained. The church was an altar to the blacksmith god and a slab was placed within the altar thus spawning the demon.
    The ones is sen's require some conjecture about Siege which if proved true basically proves he is the god of war/blacksmith deity. On his way through Sen's (he went through before you) he found the 2 slabs he had previously placed within the fortress. Each slab produced 2 demons. He then used the first of these 2 to forge his own weapon into a +5 lightning weapon (using hs blacksmithig prowess) and the player recieves the second of the 2 at the end of his storyline.
    The one near andre is hard to explain. Since he did not have the very large ember he himself could not have used it.However it is within the old church. It is not much of a stretch to say that the sitiation is similar to anor londo, as in there was an altar to the GoW/BS deity within a slab interred in it.
    The one in Nito's domain is harder to explain. There are no slabs there nor any reason for a hidden slab to be there. I'll have to come back to it.
    Finally in izalith. The respawning demon. The reasoning here is the sunlight maggots. the maggots drop red titanite chunks. These are fragments of a red slab. I believe that being bprn from the red titante slab that the sunlight mggots have since devoured has altered this demon so it undergoes a rgeneration effect when near fire. The extreme heat from the lava in Izalith slowly mends the demon by melting its surface skin to heal its wounds.

    So thats an explanation on how most of the titante demons got where they are. Just got to figure out Nito's.


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    Post by lxtab on Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:18 am

    I'm skeptical about the blacksmith being the God of War, and these other assumptions about Sen.

    Quelaag, on one of her videos on youtube, pointed out the similarities between Sen's fortress and Daedalus, who had connections to the Athenian and Cretan kings, and his creation of the labyrinth in Greek mythology. I think this is closer to Sen's role in the game, like many of the other characters only vaguely mentioned in the game (Flann, Old Man McLoyf), along with being a minor reference to Greek mythology (Gywn's lightning bolts).


    If the Andre is the God of War, how do you explain the identical dead blacksmiths holding the dark and divine embers? I'm more curious about their locations. They're found in the tower beyond the first Moonlight Butterfly, in Ariamis's painted world, and in one of the giant sarcophogi in Tomb of Giants. These all seem unlikely places for a blacksmith with connections to the church(I assume of the All Father Lloyd) to be located in, not to mention having their own little blacksmith shops set up there. The one w/ the divine ember seems to be protected by Seath's butterfly, the dark ember by (formerly)Velka's bishops and the harpies all put away in the painted world, and the large divine ember by Nito's skeleton giants. And what's the link between the blacksmith in Seath's tower in Darkroot and Havel "locked away by a dear friend" in the tower below in the Basin (watchtower basement key description)?
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    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:18 am

    That's one mystery that needs to be found out. Maybe Andre has a curse too. After all if he is the God of War, maybe he was cursed along with losing his deity status, being erased from history and not remembering he was a God. Maybe after certain time, he is fossilized into stone, and then reborn, forgetting further who the hell he was. Just a couple of ideas.


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    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:30 am

    The dark ember was stolen from Nito and hidden in the painted world so it could be used against the gods. The turning to stone thing may be the eventual punishment for using the embers. Tapping into their poewr may slowly turn you stone. Or they may have been hunted down by WoW members and stoned to prevemt them sharing the secrets of the embers with non WoW members. The one in the paintd world was obviously working for Priscilla/Seath. The one in the garden was too probably working for Seath. The one in the tomb of gianrs may have been working with Vamos or Nito.


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    Post by Wade_Wilson on Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:41 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:The dark ember was stolen from Nito and hidden in the painted world so it could be used against the gods. The turning to stone thing may be the eventual punishment for using the embers. Tapping into their poewr may slowly turn you stone. Or they may have been hunted down by WoW members and stoned to prevemt them sharing the secrets of the embers with non WoW members. The one in the paintd world was obviously working for Priscilla/Seath. The one in the garden was too probably working for Seath. The one in the tomb of gianrs may have been working with Vamos or Nito.

    Doubt that. Its unlikely that the way of white, followers of the divine and enemies of the occult, would kill two seperate blacksmiths of the church and leave their precious embers sitting there.

    EDIT: While healthy speculation is good AC, I feel that you may be presenting unconfirmed suspicions as truth. Just a heads up.
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    Post by lxtab on Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:37 pm

    I can't help but agree with wade w in his skepticism. The fun of the game is in making your own ideas about all this stuff, so all the speculators can go wild, but logically Seath and Nito have no use for a blacksmith making divine weapons to work for them. I think it makes more sense for the one in ToG to be a prisoner, as the weapons he makes would be of great use to anyone seeking to oppose Nito. The blacksmith in Darkroot also seems to be held prisoner against his will considering the animosity between Gywn's faithful supporters and Seath, with whom he made an unlikely alliance. Is the blacksmith the "friend" mentioned in the watchtower basement key description who locked up Havel under pretense of it being for the greater good?

    And Wade, I wouldn't put it past the WoW church to kill some of their own. They seem to be capable of pretty harsh stuff, especially when it comes to heretics. The motive is unclear though. The blacksmiths don't seem to have been intentionally killed(note: they're not human, or at least not afflicted with the darksign since they die for good) but rather put out of the away.


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    Post by Wade_Wilson on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:45 pm

    lxtab wrote:I can't help but agree with wade w in his skepticism. The fun of the game is in making your own ideas about all this stuff, so all the speculators can go wild, but logically Seath and Nito have no use for a blacksmith making divine weapons to work for them. I think it makes more sense for the one in ToG to be a prisoner, as the weapons he makes would be of great use to anyone seeking to oppose Nito. The blacksmith in Darkroot also seems to be held prisoner against his will considering the animosity between Gywn's faithful supporters and Seath, with whom he made an unlikely alliance. Is the blacksmith the "friend" mentioned in the watchtower basement key description who locked up Havel under pretense of it being for the greater good?

    And Wade, I wouldn't put it past the WoW church to kill some of their own. They seem to be capable of pretty harsh stuff, especially when it comes to heretics. The motive is unclear though. The blacksmiths don't seem to have been intentionally killed(note: they're not human, or at least not afflicted with the darksign since they die for good) but rather put out of the away.

    While the prisoner idea sounds logical, Im reluctant to believe Nito would have kept his one weakness, the divine, so close to him. Although he is a passive being, he isn't suicidal. It would have made more sense to kill the blacksmith, removing one of the few sources of divine weapons for the way of white who seem to launch frequent attacks on the catacombs/tomb of giants.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:13 pm

    The prisoner idea makes sense because the blacksmith is dead. If he was alive it would be a different story. But because he is dead and guarded by 6 giant skeletons you have to fight your way through them grab the ember then make it all the way back up to andre before you can use it. By keeping it close to him in the hands of a dead blacksmith it allows Nito to keep a close watch on it and more easily protect it.

    Seath having the divine ember makes perfect sense. Seath wants to drive all the gods out of Lordran. Nito is currently the only god (apart from gwyndolin who may or may not be working with Seath) left in lordran and certainly the only being powerful enough to challenge Seath (apart from the chosen undead). With the divine ember Seath can make weapons to use against Nito when he finally moves against him.

    Finally about Havel. the dead blacksmith holding the divine ember was most probably a WoW member who worked ther making weapons for WoW members who were attempting to raid the catacombs. He would have easily been able to lock up Havel thrpugh the darkroot basin door.


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    Post by Sal Paradise on Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:25 am

    I registered with the board to say that I really enjoyed reading through your theories in this thread. It makes a lot of things clearer that I didn't really understand while playing through the game for the first time. Thanks for everyone's effort, especially Acidic Cook.

    It may be a stupid question, but since every enemy placement and item drop seems to make sense in a way, what is the idea behind the rats dropping humanity? Also, why are the basilisks cursing you? And is there a connection between them appearing both in the depths and the great hollow/ash lake?

    Thanks.
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    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:32 am

    The rats nibble on corpses and so each time they eat a corpse they draw some of its humanity from it. Over a long time this humanity builds up until a sprite is born which is dropped when you kill the rats.


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    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:36 am

    Basilisks in other games and lore have the ability to petrify you. In Dark Souls this translates to a cursing breath, and it does petrify you.


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    Post by Sal Paradise on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:05 am

    Thanks, makes sense with the rats I guess. Or maybe it's a social commentary. ;-)
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    Post by User on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:41 pm

    Wade_Wilson wrote:

    EDIT: While healthy speculation is good AC, I feel that you may be presenting unconfirmed suspicions as truth. Just a heads up.

    Sigh, I know. I try to make sense of it all, by using the many pieces such as items, enemy, locations, the environment, and placement in general as my way of finding things. Many do not show actual truth, and are more so speculation. However, I try to make it as real as I can to the people, so that they may see it with a better perspective than just a guess, which I do not follow. Still, it seems that the guessing game is becoming more fluent within my own thread now.

    Another post will be out soon. It will be about the God of War again. In retrospect, my ideals of the God of War still disagree with the blacksmith, seeing the blacksmith of similar taste as that of the pardoner to Velka. I have been gone for awhile here, but I have not gone hollow.
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    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:48 pm

    Hi Acid long time no see. I'm anxious about that post so post it today, lol. Me and Tolvo made some interesting observations about Andre. They are posted in the God of War thread. In my opinion, I have discarded Solaire as candidate for being the God of War. For me, he is either Andre or Seigmeyer. Hope you alight us with your knowledge.


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    Post by Wade_Wilson on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:27 pm

    So, is Solaire of Astora designed to mislead us from the true character of The God of War? I would still argue that solaire is the best candidtae to be the god of war, but why do people think that he is a proverbial red herring? Is there something he says in his dialogue?


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    Post by Tolvo on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:32 pm

    Wyrm, my ideas were based upon ideas posted by Acidic in this very thread haha, I can't really take credit for them.
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    Post by User on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:35 pm

    Not as much as what he says, but more so what he is. His use of miracles defys the ideals of the God of War, and even more so the warrior's ambitions for the sun is something that he seeks, while the God of War already had. Even though he left the sunlight blade, which is a miracle (miracles being that of using powers from the essence of a god or an individual like havel the rock, and not actually needed to be that the individual has to be a god to sue it, which is unlike the pyromancy and the sorcery, which is defined by the power of thyself, not another).

    Although Solaire believes in the ideals of the only arm (as noted by his equipment), his ideals of searching is somewhat odd, as he seems to always follow the same path as the player. Although it is stated that the God of War had lost his deity status and he lost his annals (his recordings) in which even his name was lost, it is not stated that he lost the power of the sun itself at all, and is only speculated to be as such. Solaire seeks it however, his very own sun, in which he searches across Lordran for it.

    It will be better explained when the post is up. I can not say much without spoilment. Yes it is a red herring, but his ties to the God of War is not at all separate, and in terms both have similarities in terms of ideals of the arm. Just wait while I type.
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    Post by User on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:25 pm

    30. Strong Arm, Strong Faith, and a Strong Heart.

    The God of War... such a troubling speculative topic in which all have put their mind towards in the search for it. Many come with the ideals of which tie towards some of the characters we have seen within the world, and point towards the individuals who have the qualities that show more favourably towards that of the God of War within plain sight. However many have speculated over individuals such as the Blacksmith Deity, who we have talked about in the post before hand. We have not put an entire name towards such a Blacksmith nor a God of War, although it is speculated that it was once Sen, as the fortress somewhat implies towards the ideals of both of these deities, which has also been speculated to be the same... again, see the post from before. But many speculate over a possible being that it might be the God of War, and I have found to show the most promise to be...

    The Onion Knight. Such a strong contender, in which he has many ideals that many speculate over. Many see him as just a traveller; and adventurer who comes and goes in between our story of Lordran, and as such is part of it as a mere sideline character... or is he? Let us come to the links that ties towards him, shall we?

    First thing to note is the knight itself. The knight is armoured with something that many see as ridiculous to others, however the armours design in general is useful within combat, able to parry of attacks and a good amount of protection to the wearer itself. Even its design allows light weight to be distributed towards the knight, and the armour he wears even allows a small shield to be his side arm, armed with a needle used to push enemies and pierce them when they get too close with a quick punch. Even more so, he carries a Zweihanger, which he uses with both hands. Beings such as the Paladin could not use their heavy weapon with a fast pace as the Onion Knight (and usually swings it as if he does not have enough strength, even if they do a good amount of damage). However his swings are deadly and strong, as we have seen within Lost Izalith, as he destroys his enemies with about one to three swings with his sword, which is also electrified if I add. Such use of armour and weapons, even if they do not weight a lot, would need a good arm to use. Although the piercing shield is lightweight and scales also with dexterity, the arm does not have to mean strength in general, but also the speed of the swing; the flexibility of the arm as well. Plus, you need to be strong in order to do a good amount of damage with it. As well, the greatsword would need to have a wielder with a high amount of strength to use it, even if it is lighter than most ultra greatswords and requires less strength. Although their are other weapons that require more in terms of the quality in endurance, strength, and dexterity, the weapons and armour of the onion knight nonetheless requires a good amount of the power and speed of the arm, and the design of the weapons shows better qualities than the more numerous armours and weapons such as the steel armour from the tower knights and even the armour of Iron Tarkus, which is heavier and with less quality (made out of thick iron, instead of the quality in which the onion armour has been made in terms of architecture and design). Such quality of the knight, although with better quality in terms of design and weight, is also more vulnerable than that of the iron and steel armours used by the Berenike Knights (Iron Tarkus comes from that country, region, or whatever it may be). It would be necessary for the knight to have a good amount of vitality to survive some of the dangerous blows, and he has more health than most of the characters that the player meets (I have tried to kill him a couple of times... I faired better against others). Of course these examples are just the person itself, and others such as Solaire and the blacksmiths follow. So let us see the other qualities in which the Onion Knight shows.

    Locations, the second part, is the most interesting. The one and only place you see the onion knight is by the gate, and he seems to be waiting for the gate to be open. Of course it could be that he failed in terms of ringing the bells... or it could be that he is waiting for someone else to do it for him. As the onion knight is seen usually sitting in both the gate and in sens itself (apparently unable to explore by the terms of boulders), it is unlikely that it is the case, as anyone that has under 100% the endurance weight in terms of passing the boulders possible, in which case the Onion Knight could pass (as he is not over it, as we have seen him run normally before). It could be that, as Sen's was made as a proving ground, that the Onion Knight might see it as unfair to solve, or even more so is waiting for another to prove his worth of judgement by the ideals of both the blacksmith and the god of war: The power of the arm. It could be that he is waiting for someone for a purpose. Although for what is unknown.

    Another location that can be added is the painted room in Anor Londo; The one that contains the Silver Knights, the three that guard the room. Within the room, it contains many pictures within it, like the other bed chamber before it. However the pictures are... different. It has paintings of the creature known as the sentential, in which can be said to be the cousins of the giants themselves,a s they have the same structure of large body, small head, and good strength. It is also interesting to note the other pictures in the room as well. The pictures show many locations within Lordran itself, including undead parish, Sen's fortress, Anor Londo, and possibly New Londo before it was flooded (one picture with a location troubles me, but it shows similar qualities as New Londo) or possibly even the wall that surrounds New Londo itself. Even more so, the room also contains a chest that holds the blacksmith deities' signature identity: The Demon titanite. With such locations of the world, as well as the sentential and the titanite within the room to be seen and obtained by the player, it can be said that the Onion Knight seeks something within the room that shows qualities in which may define it as the room of the Blacksmith itself, and possibly even the God of War (if they are the same).

    Last but not least is Ash Lake, Blighttown, and Lost Izalith. Unlike Solaire (who has the Lava Ring) and the Thorned Knight (who is a chaos servant), the Onion Knight has no access towards Lost Izalith, in which case he should not be there at all. So why would he be, if he does not have the lava ring? Is he a chaos servant? Unlikely, but the aspect of him being there troubled me for a time. However his other locations does show an 'alternative' access in which the player can not use: The Arch Trees. In Blighttown, he is found in the middle of nowhere in the swamp, close to where the server and hollow ramp are, asking the player for moss. If you do, he states that perhaps it is the will of Lord Gwyn that lead them both together, and laughs. Even more so, he is later found within ash Lake supposedly dead by his daughter, which is also in an onion suit. It could be that, since an Arch tree is in the center of lost Izalith, that he used it to go into Lost Izalith himself. But where did he obtain such knowledge of travelling in Ash Lake, being that a hidden paradise for dragons to reside from humans? One could wonder that the reason for going to Anor Londo was to receive information as to how to go there... of course we do not see it in our perspectives (or perhaps, maybe we missed something). Or, as the miracle of Havel can be found in Ash Lake as well, as well as a head of a suppose dragon, possibly an everlasting dragon, one could speculate that he knew what it was, because he fought in ash lake in the war of the dragons, if he is the God of War. As he travels across lordran after the events in blighttown VIA Arch Tree, it could be that he is seeking something within the battlegrounds of the gods. It is interesting to note that his body is by a bonfire within Ash lake as well. What is the relevance of his corpse being near the bonfire, the home of the undead? Was he killed by the hands of a supposed daughter either being hollow or undead, or was it something else that caused him to die? The daughter never really explained as of how he 'died'. However it is note able that the body, unlike when the player killed the onion knight themselves, still has the body laying on the ground. Now whether or not it is something of that of his death not coming from the player or not is unknown, or it is that from wanted to show the body for a reason. For what is unknown, although some would guess that it is for proof that he died. Of course, his corpse could be laying on the ground for the purpose of something else. Perhaps similar to that of every corpse the player finds within the world, in which case the item he holds is locked away from the player to grab at first. Perhaps.

    His locations seems to show signs of familiarity in the world, as well as his locations being that of odd when questioned, although many see it as an adventurer instead of something bigger. So... what other proof do I have of him? Heh, well I can say that I still have a good amount up my sleeve. Solaire, unlike other warriors, seems to follow the ideals of the god of war and the blacksmith deity. However, although he has the skill to use such things, he seems to lack the drive to use it. Why that may be is odd indeed. It seems that he is somewhat odd, as he seems to always be in trouble. He is a tactical being, in which case he speculates over troubles such as Sens Fortress (the boulders and his incapability), Anor Londo (the usage of many other warriors), Blighttown (the need for moss, even if he went halfway across the swamp), and Lost Izalith (stuck by some demons of chaos). what is humorous about all these situations is combined with the statement he makes when you meet him in Firelink Shrine, stating that he is 'prepared for the worst'. Even though his country known as Catarina and its influence is unknown, the Onion Knight knows enough of Lord Gwyn, stating that 'Perhaps this too is the will of lord Gwyn', as said in blighttown. What will is it that Gwyn made beforehand is unknown. Perhaps it is the first death from his daughter, in which the daughter stated in firelink shrine that 'if he goes hollow, i'll just have to kill him again'. Note that when she said this, she was very calm about it... similar to a certain cleric was in different situations from the influence of the player and lautrec. Or is it something else? As it was the will of lord Gwyn that relit the flame after the chaos flame was born, and the god of war is speculated to have done reckless things during the war of chaos, it could be that he is referring to the time when Gwyn relit the flame of disparity the second time.

    It is also interesting to note about his sense of humor. He is always happy of sorts, or if not focused. He is never let down by anything, unless in the certain circumstance that he suicides in Lost Izalith (when he has lower than 50% health, and all demons in pit die), he becomes sad and dies after a brief conversation... odd, isn't it? Perhaps it is the low amount of health and the poisonous liquid that he stand upon that killed him... or perhaps the cheery mood that he had was there for a reason. If he has over 50% and all demons die, he does what would go against the ideas of the poison killing him: He sleeps on the damn tar pit. Standing up, I might add. (an excellent skill; I would love to have at times of listening to people, hah!) This would contradict that the lower 50% health suicide was caused by poison. Perhaps it was by injuries, being too exhausted to live and died. Maybe, however him being able to pass across Sens, Anor Londo, and Blighttown would have put a lot of pain towards him from enemies, as well as any being. Him bleeding out or becoming corroded by the chaos eater's acid is... plausible. If that were the case, what can we say about the insides of the man we call the onion knight? The acids do not corrode weapons by time, but instead a quick spew and staying in it for too long decays it instantly. However, it does not do so over time, so it is unlikely it is the acid. Perhaps it was indeed the emotions that kept him alive all this time.

    The Onion Knight, always so cheery and happy. It could be that the influence of the sunlight, if he is the God of War and the Blacksmith, to be the very essence that kept him alive. Strong Arm, Strong Faith; Strong Arm. Seems to match the ideals of the god of War, don't you think? When his heart withered in that tar, perhaps the ideals of the heart withering in terms of strength and faith were the cause of his death. Would explain a few... but what about his daughter?

    Hm... I never liked her, I will say it as much. I have had my suspicions about her since I found her 'fathers' dead body in Ash Lake. One of them is her prison. Her prison is inside that of a Crystal Golem, that is within the backyard of the Archives. She says that he killed him once... but when? When did she kill her father beforehand? It is never explained, however she states that she wanted to give him the last words her mother told her. Mother... who would this person be? Hard to say, but suspicions of who she is still being looked over. Of course she does not say that her mother died, just saying that she needed to pass her mother's final words... Hm. Such ideals would tend to believe that the mother is someone special, but to who she is would be hard to say... although new ideas are trumping over old in terms of the search.

    She also hangs more in the Firelink Shrine than her father. She goes there twice. One is for when she asks again where her father is, the other when she states she found him. Now whether or not she actually talked to him when she found him or not is unknown. However, the daughter seems to be ok about killing her father again if he goes hollow, as her emotions do not indicate any sense of worry, guilt, or any form as such. perhaps that, if she is the onion knight's daughter, then she might know her father well of his personality, and not worry about it leading to her finding him hollow... such ideals hinder me. She is still being researched at this time, however the speculations of the old might have to be removed for a better understanding. Still, the search continues for her.

    As for the ideals of the other candidates of the God of War, including Solaire and Andre... unlikely. As I said before, i see none of them a good candidate for the cause. For one the blacksmith is the same as every other stone blacksmith out there, holding embers in their hands with the same facial hair, hair, and body structure. If it were the same God of War, it would be unlikely to have turned to stone again and again, even more so in places where candidates that reject him would be. The one in the tombs that is filled with skeletons, and the one in the painted world that is filled with the crow demons and the hollows is unlikely a cheery crowd to have liked the blacksmith. For one, the hollows would have attacked him on sight, with the crows killing him for they represent sin (as hinted by their form and the item they hold); the other is the skeletons, in which are also unlikely, as they already have a blacksmith that possibly does their work (Vamos), as well as the workers of Nito are followed against the war of chaos with Gwyn, as Nito and Gwyn are together in the battle of chaos (as stated and seen in before posts), and the God of War speculated to have done something wrong during the Chaos Wars. The blacksmith of the forest is also unlikely, as the holy structure it once was (supposedly a church or fort of some sort, as indicated by the structure and the halo knights (the stone knights... look at the heads)) is also dead at the hands of a butterfly. Now how the blacksmith obtained the key is unknown, however it indicates that the blacksmith and havel were once was... or someone else. As both a blacksmith and a priest are found at the door to ornstein and smough show, as well as the influence of Havels Miracle in Ash Lake with the onion knight, it could be that the key was given to the blacksmith by a third being, possibly the God of War. Such an obvious speculation would have pushed the eyes of the story seekers towards the stoned blacksmith, instead of another being. As Havel believed in similar ideals of the God of War in terms of a strong arm (dragon tooth and all armor), strong faith (a bishop he once was, later a warrior and comrade of Gwyn),and possibly once a strong heart (although his enhollowment might say otherwise); it could be that the former bishop turned knight and the God of War were once friends, as they both show similar ideals.

    As all the blacksmiths that are stoned are dead, it would be odd to say that the blacksmith got reincarnated three times, then came a fourth time in a hidden, broken church. It is odd to note that this broken church also leads towards the forest as well as Sens as well. If it was abandoned for a new church (a church of Velka), it could of been that the old church was once the church of the God of War, as the connections towards Sens (battleground of blacksmith/god of war), as well as the forest (leading towards the other blacksmith area as well as the forest of Artorias... hm), it could be that the church of the God of War was replaced by the Church of Velka for unknown reasons... although some come to mind. It could be that the blacksmith Andre is not that of the God of War, but what the pardoner is to Velka; a priest and a worker. As the blacksmith follows similar ideals as the blacksmith deity/god of war, it could be that the blacksmith follows the ideals of the god of war. Interesting to note that, even thou the Onion Knight is said to be designed well for combat, that the blacksmith makes fun of the armor he wears. Now why that is, is unknown. However it could be that, as the records of the God of War were lost, that the features of the God of War were gone as well. it would explain why the blacksmith easily laughs at the onion knight. That being said, the stoned blacksmiths could have been followers as well, as all three hold divine weapons (yes, occult is divine of sorts), in which determines the weapons scale by faith, in which ties all the stoned blacksmiths and Andre to the Blacksmith and God of War deity, as they focus on raw weapons and the faithful.

    And Solaire? I have already stated before, and I stated again: He does not follow the entire ideals of the God of War. The Onion Knight, despite holding an unknown miracle emit force(which is an alternative to force, a way of white miracle that havel is in... heh), but he never uses it, nor any other miracles. Not even the blacksmiths do, and instead use the power of their arms to do so. the great lightning spear rejects the ideals of such miracle use, as the God of War only believed in the power of the arm, even if he inherited the sunlight. Even more so, solaire also seems to be hindered by a path that is the same as the player. It seems that solaire could be similar to the player in terms of a contestant to solve what was brought to the world, and instead fights towards the same goal. However his sanity seems to wither within Lost Izalith. Strange, as he goes insane by the helmet known by the Sunlight Maggot (which is a parasite, which says some things...), but if not he resides in the shortcut in a sense of revelation. He doubts the ideals of the sun, and instead goes towards that of defeating Gwyn in the end with the player. Now two things are wrong here. One, the God of War did not care about sunlight at all, and the sunlight warrior seemed to be seeking it, even thou the God of War already had it. Two, is the loss of faith. As the God of War believed in that of Strong Faith and a Strong arm (as the pattern shows countless times), Solaire loses faith in the end in Lost Izalith, about everything he followed. It could be that the revelation was the one thing that absolutely rejected the ideals of him being the God of War, as he breaks the very code in which the God of War followed. Although he keeps a watchful eye on his warriors like Solaire, the Onion Knight seems to follow the same trend as well... hm.

    Now, for the research to continue. I must go for now, as my fingers are becoming numb from this long type of words. I will continue with this soon, and you can ask any questions as usual. I will meditate as I usually do, and find the answers when I play with my comrade. I will be on my Ipod, so post if will... the God of War is seen to be Onion Knight as I see it. I may be wrong, but of course I have found that every failure was needed in order for success to be obtained. The lore is not over, so failure is possible. In the end, they will be removed from the minds of everyone, and the lore will be found. My heart sees it as such.
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    Post by User on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:23 pm

    Omg... I thought it did nit post my thing, but then I realized I actually edited a post. Silly me, getting angry at my iPod when I saw. Anyways, the post is made.
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    Post by Tolvo on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:56 pm

    Another interesting read Acidic, I still have a feeling about Andre but it is nothing more than a gut feeling. I kind of feel like the God of War is something most might never be satisfied about, I myself still can never seem to find one character to pin the name onto. It might for the best, honestly if Sieg is the God of War, that kind of lessens him in my eyes. But I'll have to do some searching of my own I think.
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    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:47 pm

    I agree with you Acid, although Andre looks extremely similar to Lord Gwyn. I believe that when he lost his deity status he also lost the power of war/arms, so he has a vaguely memory/skill about weapons. He smiths all day, and fights using only his caustus. Also it can be possible that he was those other stone blacksmiths in one of his lives. I suggest a curse was also brought upon him when he was expelled from Anor Londo, forever working on smithing to not give him a chance to participate in combat/wars. But I like the Seigmeyer idea better, he reminds me much of Prince Ostrava....


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