the Mega Mule

okay so we know why the mega mule exists, why people like it and why people hate it (sometimes both at the same time, like me for example). so lets fix it instead of ***** about it.

a couple of things that i think would cut out the need for a mega mule dupe/hack in DS2, or at least make it less of a thing anyway.

…a way to de-level your character, you wouldn't get back spent souls. think soul suck from Demon's Souls.

…you only need one copy of any spell and can attune it as many times as you have attunement slots available or you have MP that governs castings instead of x number of casting per attunement.

…you can purchase all farmable items (only farmable items, not one of or unique items) from an unlockable/secret merchant. some things would still have to be of a limited number.

…a test/debug room (like in TES Oblivion) that you could access/unlock that had all weapons and armor in it, already fully upgraded. you can only access it while in some sort of gladiator style challenge arena type thingy and you wouldn't be able to take the items with you when you left the arena. this could be extremely viable for PVE and build testing and you could give rewards (blessings, spells, slabs, uniques, whatever) for beating gladiator style challenges.

there, that would pretty much address everyones problem with the PVE grind and the desire for some sort of mega dupe glitch.

Maneater_Mildred wrote:Sorry animal I think I'm confused. lol
After reading your post in another thread im nor sure if you were saying 1 in 5 would grief or 1 in 5 would PvP.... I read it as 1 in 5 would PvP 4 in 5 would grief.... Sorry if my stupidity got it around the wrong way...

No you had it right. I originally said 1/10 would use it for pvp purposes (the nobles) and 9/10 would grief, but that seemed ridiculously high, even from my standpoint.

Tbh, I dont know if it would be 1/5, 1/3, or 1/2...scaling up, scaling down idk man. I just think far less people would use it for making pvp toons than the other people, who would use it to grief.

The number I stated of 1/5 was just a guess (or a wager I'd still take ), but its not really the point I suppose.

Either way its looked at, its a crying shame that it can be abused. The pvp community deserves its glitch. I deserve it, hell I've put well over a thousand hours into Demon's Souls and Dark Souls over the years. I feel I've earned the right to use it.

I just dont support it because of the drawbacks, thats the only reason. Someone who is capable of making the same toon because they are good at the game deserves a glitch like this.

I just dont support glitches and hacks at all. However, I support Das and toggle-escapes which just makes me a hypocrit...

...I never win... :oops:

@Nybbles

I'm both at the same time, GREAT way to put it. Up vote that guy.

barrywilkins wrote:

because you can use something doesn't mean you are going to use something.

Maybe not you, but I'll sure use whatever I have to gain an edge over an opponent in a fight, and there are quite a few people who'd do the same. As it is, I've got a character that pretty much hard counters yours but, could feasibly be defeated by having a couple more weapons at your disposal such as a bow/pike.

However, its becoming rather clear to me that neither of us is making any headway in convincing the other of anything. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this matter.

so by your logic you would use a Spear in every encounter you have because Spear >>>> everything

so make a spear in every upgrade and your good. when would you ever want a weapon besides a spear?

I really miss the soul sucker option in Demon's Souls. I would definitely support an option like that so that you can stick with fewer characters rather make a char for every new build.

Glutebrah wrote:...Spear >>>> everything...

Yes...I mean no...I mean....TWoD wins?

NO!!!! Bring back the knife spitting Dragonbros!!!!!!<--win

Animaaal wrote:

Why does that Elmo have a mustache?

^

Made me look...

so by your logic you would use a Spear in every encounter you have because Spear >>>> everything

so make a spear in every upgrade and your good. when would you ever want a weapon besides a spear?

Spears are a pretty good counter weapon for quite a few situations but, that doesn't mean they're good for every situation. They're just really good against the other 1v1 weapons with slow swing times like claymore/zweihander. They also outrange quick weapons like the gold tracer/rapier. If I have my freedom to slowly chip away at an enemy, spears are definitely my go to weapon. If I need to deal damage in a hurry though, such as in a 1v2 situation, a great scythe would serve me much better in that regard.
From there I have to make a choice of what kind of scythe to use. Do I have the freedom to cast sunlight blade? Is the enemy really weak to magic damage? From there I can choose between an occult, or a +15 scythe. At the same time, things are still getting a little trickier. Armor choice comes into play here as well. Judging by my enemies gear, what damage can I reasonably expect him to primarily dish out? Do I have the poise/defense needed to do what I gotta do? Do I have a good set upgraded for this?
These are the kind of things that run through my mind when I'm invading/being invaded. If I don't have a proper counter set up for something: I need to go prepare for this kind of thing via grinding. A player using mega mule doesn't need to do this grinding though. The preparations already been done for them. Thus giving them the ability to adapt to situations much better than someone who doesn't use it because of the sheer length of time it'd take to set up a proper counter weapon/armor set.

Lol you have to be trolling. Please tell me you are trolling lol.

Once you started talking about the scythe and the other guys armor I lost it lol.

Lol you have to be trolling. Please tell me you are trolling lol.

Once you started talking about the scythe and the other guys armor I lost it lol.

Can we please try to keep this as a civil discussion? I'd hate for this to just turn into random bickering.

barrywilkins wrote:

Lol you have to be trolling. Please tell me you are trolling lol.

Once you started talking about the scythe and the other guys armor I lost it lol.

Can we please try to keep this as a civil discussion? I'd hate for this to just turn into random bickering.

I agree, but you seriously expect me to believe that in a 2v1 situation you are going to be scrolling through every possible weapon The mega mule gives you, while calculating the defenses the enemies armor has?

Come on man... In reality you will be carrying around maybe 5 alternative weapons. With 1-2 main go to ones

I agree, but you seriously expect me to believe that in a 2v1
situation you are going to be scrolling through every possible weapon
The mega mule gives you, while calculating the defenses the enemies
armor has?

Come on man... In reality you will be carrying around maybe 5 alternative weapons. With 1-2 main go to ones

Its something as simple as checking whether they have the crown of dusk or not. If I'm facing giantdusks and I can't reliably be able to buff in time, that occult scythe will have to do for now. I can usually at least stave off an attack for a few seconds while I switch.

And yes, if it were up to me, I would have a fully upgraded weapon/armor of every type I can wield on every character. However, the thousands of hours I'd have to put in for such a thing means I usually have to settle for +9/+14 armor/weapons because as you've said: ain't nobody got time for that.

I find it hard to believe that anyone even could justify hacking, even for the slightest things and still claim to want a fair pvp experience.

I would never even dream of filling my inventory with with every possible upgraded weapon my build can use for the off chance I might attempt to swap to the weapon only to be killed in the time it takes me to scroll through 50+ weapons looking for the perfect one.

I guess this is why I can't comprehend your argument, as think doing what you describe is next to impossible.

I'll bring up one of my recent creations as an example then. Here's its basic template:
http://mmdks.com/2cza

As you'll notice, its a quality build that has been made to be able to use most weapons in the game effectively. As such, I am currently working on upgrading every weapon/armor I can to maximize its potential. Some days I'm a hollow soldier, others I'm Tarkus. I've spent a total of 43 hours on this character so far, and less than 10 of them have been spent pvping. I'm about reaching the halfway point in terms of armor/weapon upgrading, as in most of them are at chunk/slab level. I've managed in these 43 hrs of playtime to get 9 titanite slabs to drop. Most of which I've saved as I need to figure out whats best for me to focus on first Ie: should I upgrade that Zweihander or that Partizan first?

In the case of the Mega Mule user, there is no "should I?" choice to be made. They start with these items already leveled up to max level. Not only that, they have 99 titanite slabs to do with as they wish. Which means they can easily mass produce crystal weaponry which outdamages normal weapons by around 30ar on average. Crystal weapons were once a luxury weapon upgrade. No one really had the means to pump out crystal weapons thus putting most players on equal footing in that regard. If you were to make this exact build and fight me, you would have the edge by 30ar. Which means all other things equal, you're going to come out on top due to your fully upgraded armor set and improved weapon class.

Now tell me, how is that not an unfair advantage?

barrywilkins wrote:I'll bring up one of my recent creations as an example then. Here's its basic template:
http://mmdks.com/2cza

As you'll notice, its a quality build that has been made to be able to use most weapons in the game effectively. As such, I am currently working on upgrading every weapon/armor I can to maximize its potential. Some days I'm a hollow soldier, others I'm Tarkus. I've spent a total of 43 hours on this character so far, and less than 10 of them have been spent pvping. I'm about reaching the halfway point in terms of armor/weapon upgrading, as in most of them are at chunk/slab level. I've managed in these 43 hrs of playtime to get 9 titanite slabs to drop. Most of which I've saved as I need to figure out whats best for me to focus on first Ie: should I upgrade that Zweihander or that Partizan first?

In the case of the Mega Mule user, there is no "should I?" choice to be made. They start with these items already leveled up to max level. Not only that, they have 99 titanite slabs to do with as they wish. Which means they can easily mass produce crystal weaponry which outdamages normal weapons by around 30ar on average. Crystal weapons were once a luxury weapon upgrade. No one really had the means to pump out crystal weapons thus putting most players on equal footing in that regard. If you were to make this exact build and fight me, you would have the edge by 30ar. Which means all other things equal, you're going to come out on top due to your fully upgraded armor set and improved weapon class.

Now tell me, how is that not an unfair advantage?

It is a little unfair. It's not MM that's the problem though, it's the players that abuse it. You could see it positively though: If it wasn't for MM, some of those players might have resorted to true hacking and get themselves a +15 Crystal Greatsword, or worse.

MM is perfectly fine when used as that which it was made for: a tool to get straight into the PvP. Maybe the creator should have left out the crystal weapons and the slabs...

They do have a point. :|

It is a little unfair. It's not MM that's the problem though, it's
the players that abuse it. You could see it positively though: If it
wasn't for MM, some of those players might have resorted to true hacking
and get themselves a +15 Crystal Greatsword, or worse.

Justifying a hack by saying "well they could have hacked harder" is hardly a good excuse to let this slide. What I've enjoyed most about Ps3 Dark Souls is that very few hackers actually exist. To this day, I've never encountered an infinite health player, just some Karmic Explosion users so far.

What Mega Mule does is introduce a fairly minor hack, but a hack nontheless. Most people probably have already tried to hack, but gave up due to the difficulty involved in doing so. What Mega Mule proves is that Ps3 Dark Souls can in fact be hacked. If we as a community can't even agree on "how much hacking is too much hacking" then the line will be blurred to the point where eventually, legit players will hardly ever exist.

barrywilkins wrote:...If we as a community can't even agree on "how much hacking is too much hacking" then the line will be blurred to the point where eventually, legit players will hardly ever exist....

Thank you Barry,


I cant help it anymore. I've been saying this in every one of these threads. I got tired of hearing myself type and watch as no one seemed to care.

We're already doing it by saying dead angles and toggle escapes are okay. Granted they are glitches and not hacks, and its not a sign of things to come, it just is what it is.

Some people hate the community established taboos and rules and what have you, but we are our last line of defense. If we dont regulate ourselves who will?

Cut off the hand to save the body people.

Ok so you cos play different builds, but you are not swapping between 50+ weapons mid fight like you originally claimed you would do.

The fact is MM saves alot of time on builds, but anything made with MM can be done legit.

Some of my original characters had over 200 hours played in NG7. And those characters are just as strong as any MM copy over on my new Psn.

Nothing you can say will change that fact.

Sure it is technically cheating. And a hack, but i have no advantage with these builds over any other build.

Ok so you cos play different builds, but you are not swapping between
50+ weapons mid fight like you originally claimed you would do.

The fact is MM saves alot of time on builds, but anything made with MM can be done legit.

Some
of my original characters had over 200 hours played in NG7. And those
characters are just as strong as any MM copy over on my new Psn.

Nothing you can say will change that fact.

I'm not claiming I'll switch weapons multiple times every fight, or even once every fight. The point is, the option needs to be open to me if the need arises. I have to choose between what weapons I wish to upgrade first, as in manage my limited resources. What you're ignoring is that Mega Mule removes this resource management. I can never hope to actually produce crystal weaponry for anything but gimmicks, whereas a Mega Mule player is free to crystal up to 10 weapons of their choice before having to farm chunks again. In which case, they can just redownload the mule because the farming would take too long anyway.

Glutebrah wrote:Ok so you cos play different builds, but you are not swapping between 50+ weapons mid fight like you originally claimed you would do.

The fact is MM saves alot of time on builds, but anything made with MM can be done legit.

Some of my original characters had over 200 hours played in NG7. And those characters are just as strong as any MM copy over on my new Psn.

Nothing you can say will change that fact.

I dont think there's anything anyone wants to say to change that fact.

However, there's an underlined question in this thread. The MM is here and there are people who dont abuse it. But the question is, "If a FROM developer asked you point blank whether they should do anything about the MM problem, what would you say?"

CAMP1: Keep it. It saves me time and you shoulda put some sort of feature similar to this in the game to begin with.

CAMP2: Get rid of it. It ruins the game in a lot of different ways.

You said yourself you got these characters legit anyway. Would you really stop playing Dark Souls without it?

The fact is, its a hack, there are more that would use it grief than to do legit pvp, so it should go imo.

Also, I'd never blame someone for wanting to save time. I do blame someone for saying, "Well it saves me time and everyone else can eff off." Which sounds like what some of you are saying. No one in particular, but the thread tone seems to be that way for sure.

Twelve pages later and the verdict is in:

-It saves time
-It provides some unfair advantages that may, or may not, be utilized by players (some will, some won't)
-Some people love it
-Some people hate it
-Some people say it's here and it's a double edged sword
-Flickering is annoying as hell

I'd say at this point there's not a whole lot of new things to say on the matter

Also, there's still time to vote on the Dark Souls II shield designs.

My SL55, my dex and my Int build are all exact copies from my old account.

The strength, and ornstien build have a few tweaks in points.

The Pyro, black knight, and artorias build are all brand new because of the mega mule. The Pyro and BK build are ones I wanted to make for a long time, but i had no desire to grind pve

Glutebrah wrote:... but i had no desire to grind pve ....

Go buy a Wi. Play with your Wi. 2 weeks later you'll be as bored as me contemplating breaking promises and dipping into your "boat money".

I just like saying play with your Wi...I'm very immature.