The Darkroot Woods

Btw let me just say i am loving this thread. The forest is such a great place for lore.

And today we have gone from post 26 to post 106 and probably more (AEST).

Been busy this morning on this thread. I did some scouting at the grave last night to look for patterns. No eastern swords (well middle east I suppose) which I thought I recalled before. More interesting is that the graves do NOT correspond with swords. It merely looks like they do due to the sheer volume of swords. However, the graves are somewhat regularly spaced from Artorias'. The sword do a similar pattern but some graves lack what is clearly their own sword. Also, the concentration of swords near Artorias' grave is alarmingly high. Going back to Emergence (and you mentioned it Tolvo) and the Arthurian connection, it would seem that everyone was going for the sword. Most died right there. The graves probably aren't of persons who came in search of it. Piggybacking on another thought earlier, Why doesn't Alvina care that you kill Sif? The sword was passed to Sif implying a succession plan. Your first idea, a proving ground, fits best. They're waiting for someone to finally get it done.

Man, I never knew there were so many Crystal Lizards in the game actually. Yeah, Shiva does seem a bit more interested in battle and gain, so I don't really see him too interested in the Hollow. I can't imagine him making the trek down there either. I always find it interesting that there is a sword like the Great Lord Great Sword there, it might go with the idea of Descendants of Gwyn. It's also a bit out there, but who's to say Artorias isn't a descendant of Gwyn? Nothing really goes against the idea, and some believe Ornstein might be a descendant, so why not another Knight? If going with the idea of Ornstein and Artorias becoming at odds, what better to cause it than sibling rivalry over who gets daddy's gifts?

I'm loving this thread as well Dough, I think the Forest has kind of been left behind a bit in the lore searching, so I'm glad to see people finding it interesting.

Artorias a son of Gwyn. A person who betrayed gwyn? Something enough to lose his deific status! Artorias as the god of war! No I don't really think that but it jumped into my head after reading your post Tolvo.

I tried searching the forest the other day but I 15k souls and 2 humanity so I was really cautious and didnt spend too long there. And now dragon Age 2 is taking up all of my time so my searching is on hold.

I know, a door closes, and five floodgates to New Londo open up.

I'm fine with doing the searching in the forest, and I think Skare does some as well.

By the way, I can't remember if we discussed it in this thread or not, but Shiva's shield being of Western make. It doesn't match his armor or region at all, as well it has markings which are western and remind those found in the catacombs. "Thick iron shield of Shiva of the East. Heaviest of the standard shields. Deflects enemy attacks.
A famous specimen from Shiva's collection, but none who have faced it have lived to tell the tale.." Note, of his collection, or something he claimed from another. Would this merely mean he claimed it from a trespasser or knight who entered the forest? Where do you think he found this shield?

I can't see anything on the wiki but can you compare the shield to the crest of artorias? Might be similar. You did mention it in the linking the external lore thread when you mentioned it looked greek. If it looks like the crest it may already have been stolen from Artorias's grave. If not he may also be hunted by people not from the east.

Shiva's shield depicts a story, while Artorias' Shield depicts more of something like an Arch Tree. The design for the crest is completely different as well, but the Stone Knight Shield looks incredibly similar to the Crest of Artorias.

Really? I swear I checked earlier and could not see many similarities. Let me go check again ... maybe its the way the wiki shows them but I cant see anything that really strikes me as similar.

Hmm, they're less similar than I remember, but I was just noticing something.

"This crest opens a door in the Darkroot Garden sealed by ancient magic.

The door leads to the grave of Sir Artorias the Abysswalker. Many adventurers have left for the grave, but none have returned, for they make easy prey for local bandits. With such dangers, the crest can do more harm than good in the hands of the uninitiated."

One definition of Initiated, Admit (someone) into a secret or obscure society or group, typically with a ritual.

Hmm, this proving ground idea just gets more and more interesting.

Also once again that phrase "ancient magic" is popping up again. Did the last of the wizards of oz (lolololol) seal the grave away from the world? Also how do any new hunters get to Alvina without the crest?

I'd imagine they get past a hydra, killer cats, diabolical trees, and talk to the weird cat. You know, what if Artorias is of Oz, not just a hunter, but actually lived there? It could explain why his grave is there, as well why it appears so old despite the hunters being modern.

I thought that may be the case earlier. And think of the story elements it brings up! Either he truly did fall to the dark - He came from a culture dedicated to the manipulation of light but abandoned the light completely when he turned to the dark symbolising his complete fall from grace OR he pretended to fall to the dark - he used the skills of his people to disguise the fact he was still following the light of the fire while pretending to work for Kaathe.

It could also explain Tranquil Walk of Peace, as a being of both Faith and Magic, he could have been the one to bring it to faith users, though that's just crazy speculation. Man, Artorias you just get more and more interesting. As well if Artorias was the First Born, crazy ideas again here, the Black Knights went to the kiln, possibly his knights. Meaning Artorias would be the one to extinquish the flame the first time, which would bring an age of darkness, working towards the goal of the Serpents, and so much stuff! My head hurts, and I haven't slept in like 36 hours, so I should probably head off before I just start posting without using vowels. I hope to come back to find your guys having figured out what the pendant is.

Man though, I can't believe how much I've learned in my own thread haha.

Well I'm gonna get to sleep now. its 12 am over here. Just to point out this thread has had 90 posts n one day. Surely thats a record here?
I'll be back in about 8 hours.

I posted in some thread that he's the only anor londo person who seems ti even know about the forest. Could have been his home

Maybe the forest hunters moved into the garden to protect all the magic/live that is there? Seath destroyed Oz. The forest pops up, the forest hunters find the forest..maybe firgurs out what it is/was and to keep that secret they kill anybody who comes into the forest....OR, Alvina tricked the NPC's in the forest to join here using some of dusks sorcery and by doing that keeps up part of a bargain with seath?? Wild guessing here.

Tolvo wrote:Hi there, I'm Tolvo McLure. You might remember me from such independant films as Cream Corn, and Green Harvest. I'm here to talk with you about a small area of Lordron people tend to show little interest in, the Forest.

lol, +1 for the Troy McClure reference.

Tolvo wrote:That's quite possible, I just wish there was really more to go on, the endings are so brief.

In regards to being a black knight, what if he was scorched by the Flame but went on anyway? His shield does boost great fire resistance haha. But, while his gear is similar it doesn't appear burned. It could mean he was of the same group as them, but didn't go to the kiln. I mean, burning armor doesn't cause it to change designs and cause you to use different weapons. None of the Silver Knights use swords like the black knights, I believe they were a different group all together.

Ancient post, but the Black Knight Shield says that the shields adapted to be highly resistant to fire. So at least for the Black Knights gear can change.

Trying to pull some thoughts of mine from other threads. I'm sure you read my "Darkroot might be Aokigahara forest" (suicide forest) info on Emergence's thread. The demon trees were said to sprout over battlefields typically where extraordinary amounts of blood were spilled. Might add weight to the idea that the forest used to be a bit more populated and the land of Oolacile (Sorry I like the name). The ruins certainly add weight that it was more castle or fortress like than a forest at some point. The Anor Londo painting of Sen's that has the remarkable absence of trees also seems to indicate that the forest wasn't always a forest too.

I read through Dusk's dialogues as well as sorceries and items and hit upon an interesting tidbit or three. Dusk references that her home was reduced to ashes yet one of her farewell dialogues is "May the flames guide thee." Why would she recommend following the flames when this was the force that destroyed her home? Almost all of the spells involve light as has been stated. All of the descriptions are like "yeah, they do some cool stuff with light." But the cast light spell's description makes it seem like that spell is da shiznit from Oolacile. Like, "yeah, you think you're so great Vinheim? Can you do this?" and wammo, ball of light. Finally the only non-light spell is repair which is described as getting daily use in their society. So....let me know if this sounds crazy (or crazier than half the junk the write).

Oolacile was a society that prides itself immensely on it's sorceries and has evolved with magic to the point where everday repair tasks are not even handled manually anymore. Their crowning achievement was creating light. Not residual from another goal like a spear but....light. Ok.....here's where it could get silly. Logan is a good example of things like this, man is never satisfied with his achievements. After they created light and illusions from light they had to go somewhere with it. Somewhere bigger. What if they were toying around collectively to make one giant spell (it sounds like the whole society is sorcery oriented) and made a mistake casting a it? The result....ashes. The hidden body spell is interesting in it's description as well. It says that complete invisibility is impossible due to the risk of dissipation. It sounds like Oolongtea-acile knew it was playing around with dangerous magic. Dusk's crown also states it makes the wearer more susceptible to damage from magic while boosting it. Things like this don't get made without a reason. They wanted their magic to be as strong as possible. The added susceptibility is likely only a side effect of attuning oneself to that power but could be a deliberate effort to make the effects of a particular magic more effective on them as well. The armor's description states a lack of physical protection was due to no intention to be in battle. Another hint that maybe they were focused on something big with their sorcery. The ivory catalyst has a few nice pieces too. It calls the magic gentle, and while some have many evil applications, there is nothing inherently offensive like a spear, etc. This is also mentioned as a part of the lack of high intelligence to use it though. My interpretation is that they wanted strong magic available to everyone, regardless of natural ability. The "gentle" aspect may be that it requires no great effort or willpower to use it. Think of this, an entire society in which every person living can approach the power of Logan without the dedication. There doesn't appear to be any diversity in Oolacile.....everything was all about magic. Circle this wagon around now. Dusk's farewell to let the flames guide us could tie in nicely. Farewell are either a. pleasantries like "have a nice something" or "see ya" or "goodbye;" or b. blessings, often from the society's lore. Is flame the ultimate goal of their magic? Are they trying to take or recreate the sun of Anor Londo (light + fire)? Dusk indicates she saw Oolacile reduced to ashes and THEN was abducted. Was there an abduction plot and all the people in the land tried to hide Oolacile from invasion? In other words....Did they try to David Copperfield their city for some reason, only they
made it too invisible and it dissipated/went up in smoke/ashes?

skarekrow13 wrote:Trying to pull some thoughts of mine from other threads. I'm sure you read my "Darkroot might be Aokigahara forest" (suicide forest) info on Emergence's thread. The demon trees were said to sprout over battlefields typically where extraordinary amounts of blood were spilled. Might add weight to the idea that the forest used to be a bit more populated and the land of Oolacile (Sorry I like the name). The ruins certainly add weight that it was more castle or fortress like than a forest at some point. The Anor Londo painting of Sen's that has the remarkable absence of trees also seems to indicate that the forest wasn't always a forest too.

I read through Dusk's dialogues as well as sorceries and items and hit upon an interesting tidbit or three. Dusk references that her home was reduced to ashes yet one of her farewell dialogues is "May the flames guide thee." Why would she recommend following the flames when this was the force that destroyed her home? Almost all of the spells involve light as has been stated. All of the descriptions are like "yeah, they do some cool stuff with light." But the cast light spell's description makes it seem like that spell is da shiznit from Oolacile. Like, "yeah, you think you're so great Vinheim? Can you do this?" and wammo, ball of light. Finally the only non-light spell is repair which is described as getting daily use in their society. So....let me know if this sounds crazy (or crazier than half the junk the write).

Oolacile was a society that prides itself immensely on it's sorceries and has evolved with magic to the point where everday repair tasks are not even handled manually anymore. Their crowning achievement was creating light. Not residual from another goal like a spear but....light. Ok.....here's where it could get silly. Logan is a good example of things like this, man is never satisfied with his achievements. After they created light and illusions from light they had to go somewhere with it. Somewhere bigger. What if they were toying around collectively to make one giant spell (it sounds like the whole society is sorcery oriented) and made a mistake casting a it? The result....ashes. The hidden body spell is interesting in it's description as well. It says that complete invisibility is impossible due to the risk of dissipation. It sounds like Oolongtea-acile knew it was playing around with dangerous magic. Dusk's crown also states it makes the wearer more susceptible to damage from magic while boosting it. Things like this don't get made without a reason. They wanted their magic to be as strong as possible. The added susceptibility is likely only a side effect of attuning oneself to that power but could be a deliberate effort to make the effects of a particular magic more effective on them as well. The armor's description states a lack of physical protection was due to no intention to be in battle. Another hint that maybe they were focused on something big with their sorcery. The ivory catalyst has a few nice pieces too. It calls the magic gentle, and while some have many evil applications, there is nothing inherently offensive like a spear, etc. This is also mentioned as a part of the lack of high intelligence to use it though. My interpretation is that they wanted strong magic available to everyone, regardless of natural ability. The "gentle" aspect may be that it requires no great effort or willpower to use it. Think of this, an entire society in which every person living can approach the power of Logan without the dedication. There doesn't appear to be any diversity in Oolacile.....everything was all about magic. Circle this wagon around now. Dusk's farewell to let the flames guide us could tie in nicely. Farewell are either a. pleasantries like "have a nice something" or "see ya" or "goodbye;" or b. blessings, often from the society's lore. Is flame the ultimate goal of their magic? Are they trying to take or recreate the sun of Anor Londo (light + fire)? Dusk indicates she saw Oolacile reduced to ashes and THEN was abducted. Was there an abduction plot and all the people in the land tried to hide Oolacile from invasion? In other words....Did they try to David Copperfield their city for some reason, only they
made it too invisible and it dissipated/went up in smoke/ashes?

Oolacile were trying to create the ultimate magic? Thats the stupidest thing I've ever agreed with.

Now that long rant was worth a Thank You.

I can easily see this being the case, it's a bit crazy for these people to do but we see similar things elsewhere in Dark Souls, the Witches tried to create a new flame, Seath is trying to become immortal, Nito is trying to create an age of the dead, etc.

Maybe there was a mishap with the magic and it was so powerful that it destroyed the city.

That's the idea, or maybe someone realized the thread and burned it to ash to stop their dangerous magic. Actually that is very suspicious, she was around when it was burned to ash, why was she spared?

If it was fire that destroyed the city, then how did the forest survive?

Well life comes from death, fires can actually create teeming areas of life. So it's not unreasonable for it to happen, as well with the residual magic it could have worked like steroids causing this lush environment to rise. Much of the Darkroot is magical after all.