The Darkroot Woods

Artorias - Forest Hunter turned knight of Gwyn turned darkwraith turned dead. This guy could not hold down a job.
Alvina doesnt seem like the mobile type to me. I cant see her hunting in the forest. I can however see Sif hunting in the forest. We need to know where Alvina and Sif came from and how they met Artorias.

Well both are more than likely denizens of the Forest, there are other Cats in the forest, which I always found very odd. As well Sif being a Giant Wolf, I can't really imagine him being from anywhere else. Actually in regards to possible magic corruption over time, they could be examples, titants of animals made due to magic. Though the crow from the Asylum is massive too, and he doesn't have a known relation to the forest.

Artorias has done everything basically...He is a lot like a player, I can't say I ever stay in one covenant for all that long when I do a playthrough.

Is it just me or does the fog ring seem a lot like a ring of permanent hidden body? Is Alvina really a cat? Or is she just using chameleon? And when she disappears is she just using more Oz magic?

Sif on the other hand just seems like a mutated sentient wolf.

That's something I've always wondered about the Fog Ring, it is a permanent Hidden Body, a spell sold nearby. A spell useful in a dark forest where it is hard to see, just like the ring is useful. As well if she is capable of teleportation, that is an aspect of the channellers, and Dusk's summoning. For Hidden body or Chameleon, Oz spells. Either way, she has some sort of ties to Oz. I also find it hard to believe that she wouldn't know about the magical presence, but she doesn't mention it at all. Literally I can't find a bit of dialogue where she mentions the hydra or anything else, it's like she either doesn't care or doesn't want to bring attention to it.

You suspect that the forest hunters are allies of Seath? That dusk's sorceries were used to buy them out? They woul dbe the perfect cover. Use the defences that the forest already had to protect your treasure. It would explain why dusk is still there. She's being used to broker a deal with Alvina. Seath wouldn't want the kings killed. They are an enemy to Gwyn and thus weaken his power allowing Seath to remain unmolested while he goes about taking over Lordran.

I was thinking about the idea, and I mean really it's not all that out there. In fact the Mushroom people protect the Enchanted Ember, mind you protect. They don't just happen to stand around a Chest in the middle of a forest out of nowhere. By the way, attacking the Mushroom children kicks you out of the forest hunters. Is that odd or what?

Oh wow. That is weird. So that would link the enchanted ember to the covenant. And since they cant even use it why would they protect it? Its looking more and more like Seath uses the forest to store his treasures. Also the enchanted ember is from Oz. Just like dusk. So Im going to go out and say it - The forest used to be Oz, but Seath destroyed it and now stores his treasures there. He's used these treasures to buy out the forest hunters.

It would explain why he has an uncontested presence there, though if the Hydra is his I can understand why the Hunters might not mess with him.

Actually another thing I've been a bit confused about, why can Beatrice be summoned here? Does she possibly have some relation to Oz, or is she maybe working against Seath? She is a witch, but also a Sorcerer of Old.

Well she's obviously an enemy of Seath. She helps you kill the buttefly and then the four kings. But during her time Seath was not mad and would not have been all about killing Oz and kidnapping maidens. She migth have been an enemy of his because he started the Vinheim dragon school, seeing it as competition to her sorcery. But presumably this would also be before the butterfly was there. So ... bugger.

Actually come to think of it, the Sorcerer Hunter is of the Vinhein Dragon School. As well Beatrice can use Homing Soul Mass can't she? Wasn't that Pioneered by big hat Logan? Or was just Soul Spear his? I find it interesting that this Butterfly guards the Divine Ember, an ember which makes the Catacombs an easier task. Why would Seath even really care about that? As I said he is a Lord himself, but he really doesn't seem like the type to actually care. Also something I just remembered, in the Dukes you find an Enchanted Falchion, could it be that he was testing around with enchanting items with the Ember? I find it odd really that he would send it back, or possibly that weapon was how he found out about the ember in the first place. What if as well the hunters are hiding that ember from him, wouldn't it be something he'd want dearly? Maybe both have their bargaining chips with one another.

Ye sthe soul mass was developed by logan. My theory has always been Seath is hiding the divine ember so he can make divine weapons to arm his soldiers with when he finally attacks nito. He wants to be the only lord in lordran. The mimic drops the falchion so obviously Seath has been protecting it. The hunters may be protecting the ember in case they ever need a favour from Seath. They may have sent the falchion to him as proof that they have it.

The Falchion is also a weapon found at the Grave of Artorias, as well it is a weapon wielded by Nito's skeletons. That's a possibility I hadn't considered, hiding the ember away until he needed it. The hunters hiding theirs away until they need something, as well with that the Falchion being sent to him as proof idea is interesting. It's like there is an active trade going on. Not to mention there is a Channeller not in the forest, but in the Parish which is incredibly close, so they could have been working through him, or even the butterfly or golems if they are indeed allied with him.

Actually something to be considered, but aren't all Crystal Lizards found near to, or inside of the Duke's/Crstal Cave, and the Darkroot Garden?

theres one in the burg and like 5 in the hollow. Sorry to disappoint.

The one in the burg is right next to the Garden, but yeah I forgot about the ones in the hollow. They're actually near to a dragon, and the clams which are in Seath's land. But I don't consider for a second that those clams are related to Seath.

Actually come to think of it, we were a bit focused on Shiva going towards Q's domain, but what about the odd chance that the great hollow is his target?

Interesting but why would he be going there? The only reason to go to the hollow is to get to ash lake. The only thing to do in ash lake is the everlasting dragon and the view. I cant see Shiva dragonfiying himself and he doesnt seem like one to admire the view.

Also - http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Crystal+Lizard Theres also catacombs and izalith.

Btw let me just say i am loving this thread. The forest is such a great place for lore.

And today we have gone from post 26 to post 106 and probably more (AEST).

Been busy this morning on this thread. I did some scouting at the grave last night to look for patterns. No eastern swords (well middle east I suppose) which I thought I recalled before. More interesting is that the graves do NOT correspond with swords. It merely looks like they do due to the sheer volume of swords. However, the graves are somewhat regularly spaced from Artorias'. The sword do a similar pattern but some graves lack what is clearly their own sword. Also, the concentration of swords near Artorias' grave is alarmingly high. Going back to Emergence (and you mentioned it Tolvo) and the Arthurian connection, it would seem that everyone was going for the sword. Most died right there. The graves probably aren't of persons who came in search of it. Piggybacking on another thought earlier, Why doesn't Alvina care that you kill Sif? The sword was passed to Sif implying a succession plan. Your first idea, a proving ground, fits best. They're waiting for someone to finally get it done.

Man, I never knew there were so many Crystal Lizards in the game actually. Yeah, Shiva does seem a bit more interested in battle and gain, so I don't really see him too interested in the Hollow. I can't imagine him making the trek down there either. I always find it interesting that there is a sword like the Great Lord Great Sword there, it might go with the idea of Descendants of Gwyn. It's also a bit out there, but who's to say Artorias isn't a descendant of Gwyn? Nothing really goes against the idea, and some believe Ornstein might be a descendant, so why not another Knight? If going with the idea of Ornstein and Artorias becoming at odds, what better to cause it than sibling rivalry over who gets daddy's gifts?

I'm loving this thread as well Dough, I think the Forest has kind of been left behind a bit in the lore searching, so I'm glad to see people finding it interesting.

Artorias a son of Gwyn. A person who betrayed gwyn? Something enough to lose his deific status! Artorias as the god of war! No I don't really think that but it jumped into my head after reading your post Tolvo.

I tried searching the forest the other day but I 15k souls and 2 humanity so I was really cautious and didnt spend too long there. And now dragon Age 2 is taking up all of my time so my searching is on hold.

I know, a door closes, and five floodgates to New Londo open up.

I'm fine with doing the searching in the forest, and I think Skare does some as well.

By the way, I can't remember if we discussed it in this thread or not, but Shiva's shield being of Western make. It doesn't match his armor or region at all, as well it has markings which are western and remind those found in the catacombs. "Thick iron shield of Shiva of the East. Heaviest of the standard shields. Deflects enemy attacks.
A famous specimen from Shiva's collection, but none who have faced it have lived to tell the tale.." Note, of his collection, or something he claimed from another. Would this merely mean he claimed it from a trespasser or knight who entered the forest? Where do you think he found this shield?

I can't see anything on the wiki but can you compare the shield to the crest of artorias? Might be similar. You did mention it in the linking the external lore thread when you mentioned it looked greek. If it looks like the crest it may already have been stolen from Artorias's grave. If not he may also be hunted by people not from the east.

Shiva's shield depicts a story, while Artorias' Shield depicts more of something like an Arch Tree. The design for the crest is completely different as well, but the Stone Knight Shield looks incredibly similar to the Crest of Artorias.

Really? I swear I checked earlier and could not see many similarities. Let me go check again ... maybe its the way the wiki shows them but I cant see anything that really strikes me as similar.

Hmm, they're less similar than I remember, but I was just noticing something.

"This crest opens a door in the Darkroot Garden sealed by ancient magic.

The door leads to the grave of Sir Artorias the Abysswalker. Many adventurers have left for the grave, but none have returned, for they make easy prey for local bandits. With such dangers, the crest can do more harm than good in the hands of the uninitiated."

One definition of Initiated, Admit (someone) into a secret or obscure society or group, typically with a ritual.

Hmm, this proving ground idea just gets more and more interesting.

Also once again that phrase "ancient magic" is popping up again. Did the last of the wizards of oz (lolololol) seal the grave away from the world? Also how do any new hunters get to Alvina without the crest?